Terrible neighbours

[Lindsaycreate]

I’m hoping for some advice. I moved into my terraced home six years ago and unfortunately on one side have unpleasant neighbours. They are a couple in their early 70’s, she literally never leaves the house/garden and they have CCTV all round the house. We are constantly watched. They have no friends. All other neighbours are lovely and have had the same problems with this particular couple for many years so the small comfort is that it isn’t just me they have a problem with.

However, I am the one directly beside them. They put a fence up in my garden (there is a dividing wall and they put it up on my side of it) and I had to go through solicitors to get it taken down. They then built the dividing wall to two metres and said I couldn’t plant any plants in my flower bed beside it - apparently plants would discolour it. My flowerbed is full of flowers in summer - really beautiful and I cut them all back in the winter. They know this. I’ve just gone out the morning and they have poisoned all my plants within half a metre of the wall. I’m so upset. I don’t know whether to ignore it or say something to them about it.

They are very malicious - they call the police if you engage with them at all. I’ve learnt to record every interaction on my phone so I can replay for the police as the couple lie about everything. The couple seem to thrive on arguing and fighting. I don’t. I haven’t engaged with them since last July when the fence was removed.

There is no way to discuss anything with them, they cannot see anyone else’s point of view. The neighbours who have lived here longer say this has gone on for 30 plus years. Solicitors have been involved with every neighbours interaction with this couple.

I have a primary age son who is scared of them. I can’t move. I love where I live and every other neighbour is fabulous.
I would love some advice about how to get through this. I do not want to put CCTV up.

They wouldn’t have to, a fence can be added to a brick wall by metal brackets drilled and screwed into the top of it to hold wooden posts to support the fence. It can easily be done from their own garden.

I don't understand your logic of filming them hen you have an interaction in person but not want CCTV to protect yourself from them in the same way - it could be place and hidden covertly.

I like the idea of fake plants, they would be difficult to kill

Growing up we had an unpleasant neighbour, nowhere near as bad though. He had been senior in the planning department and when he retired all his golfing buddies stopped being 'friends'. He was bored no doubt. After his wife died his children stopped visiting almost entirely, and then no-one visiting him in the old people's home he went into (my mum and dad visited it to see someone else).

Hope OP somehow there is a way for you to stop this behaviour.

It's not illegal to record a conversation you are party to.

Where I work our names are on the website. I’m on LinkedIn and I’m on the web pages of professional organisations that I belong to. A google search will reveal my employer straight away. It’s similar for a lot of people- they have a social media presence or a Google search will reveal their employer indirectly, even if they’re not on the website. As PPs have pointed out, there are other ways too- uniform, company vehicles for example. I know one of my neighbours works at Sainsbury’s because I see her there.

I’m really baffled that people are trying to pick holes in OP’s account, as though she’s making things up. It’s plausible, and the neighbour behaviour isn’t that extreme compared to other stories on MN.

OP said the neighbours threatened to poison her plants so maybe this isn't relevant to her, but for anyone else whose plants suddenly die check out the nearby trees...

At my last house everything I planted on one side of our very small garden died. My neighbours had recently done up their garden with new plants etc. My BIL is an estates manager and told me that neighbours' new tree was killing my plants:

https://www.woodlands.co.uk/blog/flora-and-fauna/the-tree-of-heaven-2/

I'm just amazed they were able to buy one, although it was quite a few years ago

Fight fire with fire OP, get cctv, door bell camera, keep a note of any harassing or threatening behaviour.
My mum had batshit neighbours, it was just a woman on her own though. Between the houses was a little strip land, mum put any plants in she’d pull them up. Eventually CF put up a low wooden fence between mums house and her own at the front, about three foot tall, if any plants over mums side grow taller than the fence she’d cut them down then throw the cuttings over mums path.
Hated any washing hung outside to dry, “ it stops my light”. At the end of mums garden the previous owner had had a concrete post put up to fix a washing line to, the other end of the line hooked onto a hooked bracket on the wall. CF used reach over to cut the line when mum had washing on it. She denied, “your lines too thin, it must have snapped”. I caught her in the act one day when cleaning mums bedroom windows, I could see her stood on steps leaning over the fence just about the cut the line with a pair of long handled garden shears. She shit her self when I bellowed out of the window “ what the fuck are you doing”, she dropped the shears in mums garden and ran indoors. We kept the shears, she didn’t dare ask for them back.
DH moved the post further in so she couldn’t reach it after that. She’s is a are home now no doubt causing havoc there too.

I'm curious how a neighbour, that the OP doesn't speak to, would even know where she worked.🤔

OP said she made a concerted effort to befriend them when she originally moved in. Obviously it was mentioned then. She hasn't always ignored them.

I've got problem neighbours myself - so do know what a nuisance they can be (and it's very distracting to have to spend all that time researching laws, etc, to find out what the legal position is on everything). I'd echo the idea of getting security cameras in. I'm angry at the amount of my money it cost to get in security cameras myself (done after the ringleader bad neighbour threatened to get my car towed-off communal land they kept making out was just theirs!!!!) and those cameras are definitely noticeable. I could see that particular ringleader neighbour had noticed them - when I watched her literally walk just close enough to my garden to check whether I had indeed put some up and the expression on her face before she turned and stalked away was a picture. Those who've followed her lead and being troublesome have also clearly spotted my cameras (yep they are very visible) and I can see they are "minding their ways" rather because of them and another bad neighbour literally stopped in his tracks a couple of times - as he'd remembered I've got them (I could see him peering at them before visibly changing his mind about creating physical damage he'd had in mind to do). All round - those cameras are proving pretty invaluable and they do help with the worry that I know it's a common practice of bad neighbours to deliberately wait until they see the innocent neighbour is obviously away for a few days and nip in quick to do whatever-it-is they've been wanting to do. Those cameras havent stopped their behaviour totally (ie one of them still managed to - perfectly legally - steal a bit of my land, because I'd not known it was mine and that neighbouring owner and her husband went to the Land Registry and asked for it to be transferred off my Title Plan onto theirs!!!!!) - but it's held back even the land thief neighbours a bit re their behaviour generally. The other thing is that I've acquired a tall/burly/fit-looking younger male friend and he looks like "he could handle himself" and he comes round pretty often to see me and it's obvious the neighbours have noticed him and aren't happy about how "tough" he looks LOL and that's put them off a bit too clearly. He never says a word to them - just comes up past their houses to get to my house - but I've seen the husband of the land thief neighbour visibly go pale just on seeing him.....

Just get weirder than them. Make scarecrow size voodoo dolls in you back garden and do strange things to them every day.

Like bucket on on their head. Next day do a fork in the eye, etc.

This sounds awful, I wonder if they have the onset of something like dementia or are just very difficult. Either way it’s unfair on you and your family.

i think best to ignore and live your life. They sound like bullies, maybe bully them back.

If they are only in their 70’s she could be waiting a very long time🙄

Still not illegal to record the conversation though.

Recording something and sharing that recording are two different things. And, sharing to the police is not the same as say, posting it on SM and encouraging illegal acts.

It is also possible one may not be able to use covert recordings as evidence in court - again, not the same as illegal to make the recording though.

OP - Cameras, and have the police come and advise on where to put them if possible (sometimes they do this as part of initiatives to improve home security, same as the fire service do it for fire safety), or, hire a home security firm to advise and follow their advice to the letter.. and keep that advice documented so you have back up either way that you're doing as advised by experts in the field.

my passive aggressive response to the flowers would be wind chimes. All along the diving wall.

you can then have fun in responding to their behaviour by varying the amount of chimes. If they leave you alone for a week.. remove one.. if they block your deliveries... add couple.

of course they sound crazy so there is the risk that they are one of the few people out there who like the sound of chimes all day long. If that's the case I would resort to hours in the garden with a leaf blower.

A 2 metre high wall between the two of you

How did they poison your plants

and the evidence would suggest that they want to distance themselves from you given the addition of a second wall and then when that was removed - they doubled the height of the wall between you

@GeorgiePorge

More relevant than whether the neighbour likes or dislikes wind chimes is surely whether the OP enjoys the sound of wind chimes. If not, would be seriously cutting her nose off to spite her face!

Not direct neighbours but people who lived adjacent to the road that was part of our property and our only entry and exit.
They parked their cars on it, blocking us in. Police were called frequently to get them to move them even though they had an adequate drive.
Some people just like to cause trouble. They get some kind of kick out of it. All it did for me was make me anxious and stressed to hell. Luckily they moved but now new owners have decided to develop dwellings on their large garden but in their planning application, have included our road, a single track path that is just the width of a car.
here we go again.

I totally understand where you are coming from. I had neighbors from hell at the last place I lived. The woman was constantly calling the Sheriff and making wild accusations about me. She would tell them I had gone over a 6’ fence with 55 gallon drums of poison and poisoning her plants. She also said I was going to the trailer park on the other side of her house and smoking crack with one of the residents. The Deputies would apologize to me when they came by saying they had to follow up on the complaints.

Oh, and she accused me of stealing mail out of her mailbox when the post office wouldn’t even deliver mail there because there was a ditch in the way.

She filed multiple lawsuits against me, each more insane than the last. She never prevailed.

When she finally moved after 13 years, her son moved in and escalated the harassment. It only stopped when I moved two years later.

I had another neighbor from hell at my new place. That one finally moved after 8 years of craziness. We shall see who moves in next. :-) The house is in escrow. Oh, the woman that lived across the street from him set his porch on fire, then called for the fire department to come out. She’s out of the neighborhood now too and a very nice couple now live there.

There is one other lousy neighbor in my new neighborhood. She has a problem with alcohol. The rest are all pretty decent people.

Since the neighbors are in their 70’s, it’s reasonable to assume they may not live there much longer. They could end up in a home, since they don’t talk to family and have no friends. Or they could pass in the not so distant future.

I like the idea of getting some fake plants that look real to put in the flower beds where they poisoned it. Then put a camera on there so you can catch them trying to poison them. At least you will have proof of their bs.

I didn’t realise, until I joined MN, the value of good neighbours. We are very lucky and it’s certainly one of the things that makes me want to stay put.

Are they owner-occs? Rented - privately? HA? Council?

Ahh that's awful. But I would just move my flowers and ignore them. Obviously some kind of weird issue going on there.

Get your own cctv up too. Hopefully they will be dead before long. Problem solved

What a nightmare!!
A 2 meter wall… I presume they must’ve had to stand on something to pour weed killer over !…. I would definitely but a little camera up on your side. Catch them in the act!
But yes I’d make sure I as happy as possible whenever in the garden and not comment about the dead plants etc within earshot of them… just act like you don’t care!…. They’re obviously climbing and looking over the wall to even know you’ve planted things close to their wall..
let’s hope they fall off the stool/ladder etc! That would just be karma in my opinion. get some really life like fake plants and put them in the ground…. It will drive them bonkers when they waste £££ on weed killer and it doesn’t work 😂

Step ladder. Watering can/pressure sprayer. Its a 2m wall.. not a 20m wall...

They built it because they thought it would annoy me. She told the builder in front of me as I was leaving my house that ‘she (me) wants it all open’ - building it was a ‘win’ in their eyes. I, on the other hand, was delighted as I didn’t want them looking in at me all the time (had planned a pretty hedge when my garden was returned. Incidentally, there had been a historic hedge and palm trees on that boundary that they cut down and poisoned while my builder was renovating the house. I was shocked but didn’t address it at the time because I was the new neighbour).
They didn’t get that I simply wanted the previous fence off my property so they couldn’t adversely possess it.
I have a photograph of her, from a couple years ago, that my other neighbour took where she is standing on something and bashing my plants with a broom over the old fence (1.8 metres) so I should think that’s how she/they have done it. Crazy but true 🤷‍♀️and again I was too soft to address that although the police do have it on record.