Child out of wedlock / illegitimate - does it still matter

[Bananabreadandstrawberries]

Does it still matter in any way whether your child was born within a marriage or not? Is there any stigma to being an ‘unwed mother’ or ‘illegitimate child’ (apologies no offence intended). Do you view people differently before of this status? Are there any practical implications?

For those of you who feel it doesn’t matter, would you still prefer your own daughter were married before having children?

I ask as I feel despite most people not minding this about other people, the couples ‘doing better’ in life still tend to marry before having children. I am not sure

AIBU that legitimacy doesn’t matter anymore?
YES = Makes a difference (even though it’s not PC to say so)
NO = Makes no difference about being married before children.

Unmarried mothers are far more likely to lower levels education and also to live in poverty. It very much so still matters to the outcomes of her children.

Of all my university educated female friends none had a child outside of marriage.

Being a mother puts you a vulnerable position physically, mentally and financially. Having a contract in place (which a marriage is) to help cover yourself is just smart. It has nothing to do with stigma and everything to do with protecting yourself and your children.

There hasn't been a stigma for decades. It literally never comes up.

I have been with my partner for over 20 years, we have 2 children, 2 houses, both have several degrees and professional qualifications, doing very well, and are not married.
you don’t do better because you are married (although make sure there is financial equality)

👏👏👏

I think having two involved and loving parents is most important, ideally in a partnership. But I have two children (half-siblings) and I'm not married🤷🏼‍♀️

I don't feel there is any stigma. But there is a higher rate of marriage among professional people, presumably because they are more aware of the protections it offers and they are more likely to have assets to protect from IHT. I work in the law and have noticed a high marriage rate, very low rate of babies born to unmarried members of staff (mostly admin staff) and, most surprising of all, very much lower than average rates of divorce. Maybe its true what they say, that well off couples can't afford to get divorced!

I don't think anyone in my circle cares. None of my kids' cousins parents are married, and though we are now we didn't get around to it until the oldest was 10.

I do think it seems more common in middle class circles to be married before having kids.

Of the friends of my kids who have seperated parents, about half were married when the kids were born.

It's just a legal contract at the end of the day and doesn't seem to mean a relationship will last any longer than it otherwise would.

I actually think it’s smarter to move in with or have a child with your partner BEFORE marriage. Those two things show people’s true colors, and it’s best to know who exactly you’re with (especially in times of stress) before getting into legal stuff.

It’s easier to walk away when you don’t have a piece of paper binding you together.

To me, it wouldn’t matter if my daughter was married or not as long as she was happy with the result

In your culture perhaps, but the UK is home to several walks of life.

Like in my own for example, this would be a really big scandal. Luckily I'm an open minded person, but not everyone is and I know people who have been disowned for this very reason.

Thats so anecdotal.

Of all of my close university friends (5), one was married and never had kids ( subsequently divorced). 2 were pregnant on their wedding days (one of which was a rushed wedding due to pregnancy) and 2 have kids in long term relationships, no intentions to marry.

I myself am not married with 3 kids. Long term, stable relationship. No intentions to marry.

I'm also in a professional role with a good pension and work life balance. I own half of my home and don't need any further "protection".

Stop putting people in boxes.

I think it could matter if you are a member of certain religion or culture and some in the community could look down on you for that.

I wouldn't look down on a woman who had a child out of wedlock but I might think that by not marrying first she could possibly put herself in a difficult position if they split.

@EmmaDilemma5 Feel free to google for the data/papers. There's tons out there. My own experience is anecdotal and for me it does agree with what many studies have found. It doesn't mean that there aren't plenty of well educated wealthy unwed mothers. It's about trends. Its also about realising that women are vulnerable when they become mothers and it's not just a piece of paper. It's a legal contract.

No it doesn’t matter. My dd was my bridesmaid at my wedding. She was only a baby, but she was. No one cares she’s born out of wedlock

@Sycasmores there is nothing about marriage that protects women in poverty that are poorly educated and have an unplanned pregnancy without cohabiting with the father. The cart is before the horse. Marriage correlates with higher education, with higher earning and with a stable relationship, but it is an effect not the cause of those things.

I don't think there's a social stigma anymore - or at least I certainly would hope not.

However, numerous studies have shown that parents that are unmarried when they have children are statistically far more likely to split up (even if they subsequently marry) and outcomes for children from unmarried households tend to be statistically worse than those from married households.

Now, I suspect the reasons for the above are multiple and varied and are caused by far more than the wedding certificate in itself, but I guess I would see the traditional marriage then kids route as more likely to be stable, and on that basis, that's obviously what I would prefer for my children. I also think that I'd definitely be concerned if a child of mine was embarking into parenthood, potentially downgrading hours/career without having full legal protection (although I realise that could be sorted by ways other than marriage). But honestly, the choice would be theirs, and my only concerns would be regarding wanting the best for them, rather than any form of social stigma as we used to see a couple of generations ago.

The difficulty with trying to get sociological data about children born to unmarried parents is that it includes all of them- from people who have been together for a week to people who have been a committed relationship for years. Not surprisingly the first are likely to be unstable, short term relationships. But the statistics are used to make it look as if marriage is a desirable ultimate goal.

read the countless threads on here about women who have children with men without being married to them. And what happens afterwards if the relationship breaks down.

Yes. It is sensible to be married to the father of your children.

I don't think society cares, do they?

The statistics indicate that unmarried couples are more likely to break up than married ones, with or without children.
The marriage indicates a greater level of commitment by the chaps, compared to the ones who whine that it’s “just a piece of paper” and want an easy way out if they get fed up or see a better offer.
If you are both high earners, you will be hit for inheritance tax if unmarried, but can shelter double the assets if married.
In my day (I was widowed with two babies) unmarried mums didn’t qualify for a widow’s pension - worth £90,000 to me over the years since DH died.
If your partner refuses to marry you, start wondering why. And ask yourself what it says about their commitment to you and the relationship. If you are the one refusing - ask yourself why. It costs an hour of your time and about £120 unless you want the optional razzmatazz.

@Brefugee there are also countless threads of women who are married, with children and in a failed relationship. They are just as much up shit creek as their unmarried counterparts. What is the specific benefit that being married confers legally in that situation? It isn't child maintenance, nor likely to be spousal maintenance. If a house is owned and has some equity then being married would I suppose mean a claim on the equity if it was considered a marital asset.

Yes, it makes a difference, and I do judge heavily. It shows you’re not fully committed and have brought a child into the world in an unstable relationship.

It would be very unusual in my circle (unique, in fact) not to be married before having children. My friends who have children are all married, and all the parents of my children's friends that I knew were married.

I'm now getting to an age where it's the next generation who are young adults. None of my friends or family members of my generation are grandparents yet, but several of their children (who are in their 20's) are married or planning their weddings. Even among young adults it would seem very unusual for someone to have a child without being married yet.

Would there be a stigma? Not from me, but I can't vouch for my acquaintances. More likely the reaction would be wondering why, if the parents are in a seemingly secure loving relationship, they chose not to get married first.

I don't understand one of my relations pov because they are illegitimate but insisted her DD married before baby was born (about 3 weeks after the wedding). The DDs wedding had been postponed several times due to Covid. That poor girl was exhausted and miserable by the end of the day!

For myself there was no stigma growing up with unmarried and later seperated parents. However if you're part of a different commuinty it can matter a lot.

Also there is still is a general stigma it's just reserved for the 'wrong type' of unwed mother almost always working class and then a teen, on benifits, multiple kids by different fathers and/or biracial relationship.

I don't think any the less of people not being married before children but in my extended family and friends people tend to get married to have children (after living together).

I think there's still the expectation of that's the order of things and people think there's security in marriage.

I wasn't married when I had my kids. I got married when they were 2 and 4.

That's obviously not true. Nearly half of marriages end in divorce, and many of those will have children. You think they are in a stable relationship because they are married? Er nope. Not to mention the percentage of people in long term stable relationships with children who are not married. Please do judge me. I have two children and have been with my partner for over 20 years - why is my relationship unstable and not fully committed?