Child out of wedlock / illegitimate - does it still matter

[Bananabreadandstrawberries]

Does it still matter in any way whether your child was born within a marriage or not? Is there any stigma to being an ‘unwed mother’ or ‘illegitimate child’ (apologies no offence intended). Do you view people differently before of this status? Are there any practical implications?

For those of you who feel it doesn’t matter, would you still prefer your own daughter were married before having children?

I ask as I feel despite most people not minding this about other people, the couples ‘doing better’ in life still tend to marry before having children. I am not sure

AIBU that legitimacy doesn’t matter anymore?
YES = Makes a difference (even though it’s not PC to say so)
NO = Makes no difference about being married before children.

I'm not married to my partner of 12 years and I'd say we are 'doing better' in life as you put it, if that's code for 'naice professionals with degrees and a National Trust membership'. We just aren't married. Do give your head a wobble.

It is probably attached to a financial issue which is why it’s perceived more “successful” couples are married first before having kids.

I know myself personally I have one baby who’s 6 months and I’m not married but me and my partner are engaged and have a mortgage together. However we couldn’t of afforded a wedding on top of a house deposit plus all the things we needed for the baby - so we went with what was more important to us.

I think if lockdown etc hadn’t of happened we may have got married before a baby but we preferred to have our own house once lockdown ended and then I fell pregnant.

can you elaborate on 'mxxxxx' please?

I would've said the stigma wasn't there anymore until I got pregnant out of wedlock... Some of the things that were said to me.... Definitely an opinion that is still strong!!! 🙄 Not limited to but including asking me was she a mistake, was my father furious and did my parents give out to my partner.... (I'm in my 30s by the way)!

I didn't mind having a baby out of wedlock, that was pretty much always our plan.

Indeed! Same here.

Also in my field of work, its totally normal to a) keep your own name after marriage and b) not wear rings at work. So unless you ask outright, its impossible to tell who is married and who isn't.

No it doesn’t matter. What matters is how long you’ve been together and how good the relationship is. Anyone can get married. I could get married in 2 weeks to some man I met in a bar but it doesn’t mean he’ll make a great husband or father.

I would judge anyone but It does make a difference for the mother certainly. If a man won’t commit to a marriage I would never have children with him. It’s also about money and legal protection. For the child, to have a committed father would be the best for them.

No-one said a word to me about it. My son's four now, it's never been mentioned.

I don’t think anything of it. My only concern would be if a friend was becoming a long term SAHP without being married as it could leave them financial vulnerable

No.. but it bugs me I'm not.. I hate having a separate surname from my baby and partner.. for some reason just being anke to be a MRS makes me feel mature 😂

But I seem to have impossible high standards for myself but anything goes for everyone else on the planet 😂

In terms of judgement being born outside marriage has made no difference to my life or my children's as far as they have reported to me. They are grown up now. Most of the negative comments came from my own grandmother but she soon wised up when her more with-the-times cousins gave their opinions! The rest of the occurences numbered just a handful and both I and they are confident enough to push back when it happened.

But I would you still prefer my own daughter were married or in a civil partnership (these are now available for both same-sex and different-sex couples) before having children. This is for legal and financial reasons that I wished I'd thought about more when I was young. And I have told her this. I'm not concerned about morality or issues about how society would treat any grandchildren.

I hate having a separate surname from my baby and partner..

This is a separate issue. You can change your name without getting married or you can negotiate or just decide for your children to have your surname or you can do some double-barrelling. As the unmarried mother you hold all the naming cards, unless your male partner is going to hold that over you and cause problems in which case the problem is with the man you have chosen to have the child with. Women don't always change their name on marriage either.

Change your name then. You can call yourself whatever you want.

Personally I wouldn't give my baby my partner's name, seems a weird thing to do.

Being a mother puts you in a vulnerable position physically, mentally and financially. Having a job to help cover yourself is just smart. If you want to stop work for a while, having a contract that protects you it smart. But it in no way compensates for being able to generate your own money.

Fixed that for you.

You've got the correlation between marriage and poverty the wrong way around. Poor women with lower levels of education are far less likely to get married (because they can't afford to). Marriage doesn't automatically confer prosperity, safeguarding and stability. What does do that (for women) is stability, parental involvement and education. Marriage is the side-effect, not the cause.

I do find it slightly frustrating that people on here tend to talk about marriage as if it fixes everything in a woman's life. We seem to have moved past the idea that not being married is a moral failing (which is great) but instead the debate seems to have moved onto the idea that being married is key to social and financial advancement. It's really not.

Marriage is a very useful insurance policy for poorer women but is less and less relevant for us as we acquire more money and property. And it's no substitute for working and having your own money. I wish we could learn to talk about it for what it is: a canny little side fix that you can use to protect yourself, as opposed to this all encompassing silver bullet which will magically make all your problems go away. I think its quite a limiting aspiration for young women.

About half the babies born into my circle of family and friends were born out of wedlock. Off the top of my head, that means 7/13. As it happens, all couples both married or not are still together, and two couples have married since the birth of their children.

I do think there are sensible practical reasons to marry first but no moral ones.

I've been together with the lady I refer to colloquially as Mrs B since 1983. Fortieth anniversary together in November but we've never married. Neither of us nor a parent (except my Mum in later life) was religiously observant and we have what we have together as a couple without needing any confirmation in the eyes of friends etc.

Two children D now 30 and S28 both out of wedlock. My surname with hers as a second given name though if they want to use it in a Double Barrell format they can. D married her partner well before conceiving their son but lived together first. Her Mother out law is an active Methodist with a (now long gone) Minister as a Father. I'd not be surprised if Son in law felt under some pressure.

Son and his girl are currently childless but I'd be surprised if they married.

We've arranged our affairs so that, at least until recently, the only significant asset, the house, was held as joint tenants so passes to the survivor. Otherwise wills would have been needed.

Having inherited significantly from my Mother half house plus half of investments raises the possibility of IHT. We've been advised that Civil Partnership would solve that.

Only person to make bastard jokes was Mrs B's Mum but strictly in fun & not in front of the children before they were old enough to understand.

Only place I recall it might have been an issue was in a B&B on the strongly Calvinistic Protestant Western Isles where I detected more than a cloud cross the landlady's on seeing our cheque as Mr SB and Ms EC.

Doesn't matter at all, less than half the parents at work are married

@Mutabiliss why is having their dads surname weird? Where I'm from it's the usual unless your not together? People may have different prefers but I wouldn't think a surname is weird? Is it not more weird to use mine then when we do marry they are the only one who doesn't?

Well you can shove that up your arse.

Me and dh have been together 11 years. Married 10 years this month. Dd is 10. She was born before the wedding.

I also know someone who has been in a relationship for 25 years and has 3 children. They haven’t gotten married purely because they don’t believe in marriage

I wouldn't have wanted to have a child without being married but I could not care less what other people do. If I had become pregnant and wasn't married, and didn't have the prospect of getting married, then I would have had the child "outside of wedlock."

I really don't understand why women give their children the father's name. Why on earth would you do that?

I don't think there's any stigma around here for the child.

I know some people who have felt ashamed of getting pregnant outside of marriage. And I think in the case of a split it makes a big difference to the mother though.

Personally I think children should be inside of wedlock and chose that for myself.

No. What matters more is as a woman I would want my daughter to be financially independent so whatever choices she made did not impact her independence.

I am saying this as a lone parent who was able to walk away from an abusive situation because I focussed on my career earlier. I have brought up my DD14 on my own and can afford private schools etc

So no, it doesn't matter. What does matter is your capacity to be financially independent.

Same.

My eldest was born before we got married and it mattered to me. I wanted to be married and there is stigma in our family towards having children out of wedlock

In my circles (family and friends), I can only think of two couples out of tonnes who had kids before marriage. And any who did so, got married after having the first child.