To ask why people are so against giving up meat?

[NewCracker]

Just that really, why are people so against giving up meat?
Without a doubt we know it's better for the environment, we know it's better for our health, we know it's better for animal welfare and it's actually quite expensive. But still as soon as you mention to the greater public about cutting their meat consumption, they get defensive and almost offended.
Would you ever consider giving it up, if you do consume it now? If not, why not?
I'm expecting some hate, this is MN after all, but I am genuinely just curious. Not trying to rattle feathers.

Haha, you have no idea!!

My nutritionist is a former nhs dietician - and she is able to work much more effectively without the limits put on by the nhs. She was recommended to me by my doctor, because he knows the results she gets compared to the nhs results! He would have referred me, but he gave this as an option. I don't regret it.

Is your argument that only vegetarians eat the vegetables we grow? You realise it’s mostly eaten by omnivores like me and you? And that a huge portion of the “high volume veg” you describe is used to feed animals?

So can the vegans tell me, what we are going to do with all the land put aside for meat, wool and dairy produce.

What are you intending to grow on the highlands or on the peak district moorland or lowland pastures where cattle, sheep and farming practices conserve specialists habitats?

Here is one example of for you to mull over, because your all so clever.

You ban all management and farming for grouse, sheep on upper moorland, they no longer become managed and the peat layers become deep and when a fire occurs from either climate change or accidental and deliberate fires, because they are unmanaged this in turn causes a deep burn of peat decimating all the wildlife and wiping out the top layer of vegetation for weeks and destroys 100`s of years of peat releasing millions of tons of CO2e into the atmosphere.

The bare peat is now exposed to the elements (aeolian erosion), all the mosses and sphagnum mosses have been wiped out. Carbon is now being released into the atmosphere at a rate of 100 years of carbon every day.

The peat can no longer hold the huge amount of water it once could and becomes hydrophobic (no longer hold water). it also leaches humic acid into the water ways as its not exposed to oxygen and bacteria are breaking it down, resulting in massive costs in millions to water companies to clean it.

Flooding now results down stream, VOCs and fine organic particles now flow into lowland rivers and streams affecting the gills of young fish and invertebrates, killing them. and it goes on and on but i cant be bothered to mention the multitude of other effects.

I have only mentioned one effect of changing farming practices and managing land for lives stock. Nature has evolved by our practices.

So yes ill keep eating game, consuming dairy and all the other nice foods we produce and i never even got onto the impact to jobs, lively hoods.

🤔
The peat becomes hydrophobic (can no longer hold water) and causes flooding down stream, it leaches humic acid and other nutrients as it breaks down inot water ways costing water companies millions to clean it. Dissolved organic particles are leached into rivers effecting fry of all small fish and other sensitive invertebrates by bg

This thread remind me I needed to get something out for tea tonight. Mince, chicken or sausages, I can't decide.

Note we import a third of beef
And we import rather a lot of pork and lamb and ...

So even if your local farm is perfect not all are quite as green as you would like to believe , Eve if it's just supplements over the winter

I really can't understand people denying truth about climate change causes it really suggest that they feel sone guilt I guess which is positive

@Purplefoalfoot You cannot both love animals and eat meat. This is cognitive dissonance.

I think the key thing here is “in your opinion”. For me it is not an issue. I have no problem with people asking questions or looking for debate- and indeed I came here to answer the original question.

I am happy to answer the question around how can this not bother me? How do I get past the death of an animal I have cared for or any other question. But it is a bit tiresome (by both sides) to come on a discussion board and just see 🚨STOP YOUR OPINION IS WRONG!

Opinions can’t be wrong -they might be built of false assumptions or misinformation but the persons final conclusion is simply down to the personal interpretation of the information they have at their disposal.

Most people don't imagine we will all go vegan overnight. The most viable way is generally thought to be a gradual shift and phasing out of animal derived foods over time. So there wouldn't be any great unleashing or slaughter of existing animals, merely not replacing them by further breeding as the demand gradually declines. I'm sure there are more knowledgeable vegans than I and there's plenty written about it you can Google, but that's just my understanding.

@vodkaredbullgirl

good for you

I disagree that it's better for your health, a huge majority of people would not get their nutritional needs fully met as they wouldn't take the right kind of supplements or eat well enough etc they would also end up eating ridiculous amounts of sugar through carbs etc as these would be used as stomach fillers. Also have you read the ingredients lists of these vegetarian/vegan options?...absolutely trash no thanks. I have reduced meat consumption slightly but no way would I give it up completely each to their own but not for me.

No, no, no. If anything that happens beyond a preschooler's understanding of food production, ie, cow dies for people to eat cow, then it doesn't happen and we don't have to consider it.

Tbf, I was genuinely shocked when I, as an older adult, realised just how many animals die, often really, really horrible deaths, in the production of grain and vegetables. Though when the surprise recedes it does fade into, well of course they do. Once you start to think it through, it is obvious that it's not just vast amounts of living creatures that die from that kind of food production, but the scale of biodiversity that is wiped out in plant farming. Meat eating leads to deliberate, preplanned animal death, there is no denying that. And even as an avowed omnivore, I fully understand why people don't feel comfortable with that. But plant farming leads to massive collateral damage on a scale not present with meat farming. And that collateral damage includes an awful lot of unplanned animal death, the fact that people don't then go on to eat those dead animals doesn't change that.

Well I enjoy chicken too much for a start, dont think that's "defensive" saying that!

Why do vegans have pets? I don't get that bit either. We know vegans with animals in cages and fish in tanks.

😂

I don't agree that 'farming' as a whole is 'bad for the environment'. For starters, animal poo fertilises the vegetables that we eat and for certain crops there isn't a viable alternative which isn't derived from animals. Eating meat which has been sustainably farmed, with high welfare standards and in moderation, is a perfectly sensible thing to do. Choosing to be vegetarian or vegan if that's what you want to do is also valid.

The logic is that another specific species or breed would then become extinct, if you are happy with that fine. No one is going to keep cattle etc if they can't make money out of them, because they aren't pets. The Gloucester breed of cattle was nearly extinct in the 1950s, there were less that 100 in the country. Farmers invariably started to keep Holstein/Friesians as they produced much more milk. The old native breeds didn't produce so much or hadn't been selectively bred to produce milk and meat. It was a few people who kept the breed alive { Adam Henson's father from Countryfile was the driving force behind it}. Once they are gone then they won't be back, many breeds have been bred because they actually do well in our climate. Other breeds do well in other climates. So we won't have those animals ever again , and yes ,as strange as it seems , eating them does preserve the breed. We nearly lost the Suffolk Punch horse as farmers started to use tractors rather than horses. They were rarer than the giant panda at one point, if you don't care about breeds becoming extinct then fine, but don't campaign for one and not others.

@Fernbreeze

Veganism is the epitome of naivety. Ironically they have no respect for evolution and natural habitats, never mind natural human behaviour.

All of your exotic fruits and veg take up masses of land too, and are flown into the country, which isn't great for the environment either, eat local and in season if you're that bothered?

I don't eat meat, never really liked the texture of it and found it stressful worrying about whether I'd find myself biting into some horrible gristly or fatty bits which always made me gag. My son isn't much a meat eater at all, he only really has it in things like bolognaise or the odd bit of ham on a pizza. Most of the time he eats the same vegetarian meals as me.

My 11yr old daughter decided to go vegetarian recently but lasted less than a week, she has always loved meat and really didn't enjoy any of the meat substitutes she tried last week due to their texture, which is fair enough I don't like most of them myself! She either wont try at all or claims not to like any of the sorts of things I eat for protein such as lentils or chickpeas. As she already has a chromosomal disorder that affects her growth I'm happy to just continue feeding her meat rather than her wasting away to nothing.

My partner is a meat eater and has no plans to change that, he does have autism and likes to stick with what he knows. There is no point in my trying to convince him otherwise.

Thank you, yes they call meat eaters unintelligent like posters above. Yet more often than not they do not understand the bigger picture, very naïve.

😋 delicious enjoy

You do know that almost all of those beef imports come from Ireland? Ireland. Are you accusing the Irish of being 'bad farmers'?

I think you will need some very specific evidence to show that cows farting is a problem for the environment. I know it has been repeated enough times by various lobbygroups that people just accept it to be true, but what is the evidence you have to make this claim?

But that's because 1. Pork pies and cocktail sausages are the most disgusting meat products available. I love meat and I wouldn't touch those either.

1. They're not suitable for anyone Jewish or Muslim, so also massively excluding anyone who is kosher or halal.

It doesn't prove that people would rather eat vegetarian food than meat. It proves they'd rather eat vegetarian food than the most cheap, disgusting, processed, unhealthy meat options available. I'd rather eat my own ear wax.

I have a health condition that means I’m in a lot less pain and discomfort if I eat a nigh on carnivore diet. To state that giving up meat is ‘better for health’ is completely inaccurate.

^ I agree. Eating meat doesn't mean any old shitty version. Processed cocktail sausages 🤢