To ask if parents of secondary school students are aware…

[Curtainsblue]

I’ve seen some posts about the impact of lack of teachers on primary schools and also some discussion about impact on exam classes, but I wonder if parents of KS3 students are fully aware of the situation schools are currently in.

My friend is a science teacher in an oversubscribed, high achieving comprehensive school and has told me that from September around a third of KS3 science lessons will be being taught/supervised by cover teachers.

Maths are losing curriculum time (so fewer lessons every week) in KS3 as there simply aren’t the staff to teach them. He’s said this is a common picture throughout local schools, with maths and science departments in particular being impacted- he knows of 1 school in the areas that are fully staffed in these subjects.

A colleague of his at a different school has said they are preparing for it to become common place for students to be in ‘super-cover’ classes, where if there are staff absences, students will be sitting in exam style venues in groups of 60-90 working silently and independently while being supervised by a senior member of staff.

This isn’t being communicated to parents. I spoke to a teacher at my sons school and she said she doesn’t know what’s happening there yet but they are also incredibly understaffed from September.

Are you aware of staffing levels at your children’s secondary school and how this is going to impact them?

To answer the question, yes, I was aware. Absolutely nothing I could do about it though

didn't occur to you to let your MP know?

Yes. Just filter them off for GCSEs/apprenticeships instead of 11 which is too young

There are enough STEM teachers. They're just not being retained.

I used to be a trainee ed psych and the stress going into schools, you can feel it, like walking on egg shells. I've noticed how much pay inflation has started to creep for high quality TA's and teachers -an experienced TA working supply can cost up to £130, more in high cost of living areas. But the system is failing, there are endless requests for EHCP's; schools don't have the support staff to provide learning interventions, so fewer children get early intervention, then more need an EHCP or funded SEN support, only there is no one to hire to provide the support for the child. I've known some children with EHCP's wait and wait for terms even though funding has been granted for them.

And so many children just want emotional containment, we keep being asked to provide 'trauma informed' support for staff, but the staff don't have the mental reserves, or time, to provide this to them. They are ready to break. I think Brexit has been a disaster, the nursing recruitment issues is showing that, we need to get a 'workforce' that can go for jobs but we can't actually physically staff the children's education properly. I think the children being taught now need even more grade protection than they did during covid times - covid will have had an impact but its government and policy factors too.

Going to a secondary school, the behaviour was an eye opener too. I could not be a teacher and want to take my qualification into the NHS - which I know is riddled with problems of its own.

Hats off to anyone in education but I see why so many are leaving and not returning

My DC are older, but yes I am aware of it.

LEA has several secondary schools where HT are saying they won’t be able to open five days a week a from September unless they get more money from government.

This government is a shower of shit.

I don’t think this conspiracy theory adjacent explanation is accurate at all. I genuinely think is just we’ve had a long run of extremely under par politicians from all parties. I don’t believe the Conservative Party want the country to be in the mess it is across so many, many areas. I think they have just colossally failed. It’s an utter failure of analysis, and strategy. Just like the opposition parties have utterly failed as opposition. They have failed to be a convincing or inspiring opposition that people Even now KS will get in just because the Tories have been so bad, not because anyone is actually inspired or convinced by KS or the Labour Party.

I don’t think we can fairly blame the electorate for having dreadful choices of parties.

What I think we as the electorate do have responsibility for is vilifying politicians and subjecting them to abuse. I do think this means all the decent, competent people are leaving/ failing to enter politics meaning that rich kids doing it for a hobby ( David Cameron) and ideologue fanatics ( lLiz Truss) are what we have left. When what we need are serious thinkers prepared to put in the vital but unglamorous hard work of the administration of Government.

So I don’t see this as a party specific thing but more that our political system is as broken as the other parts of our country.

Yep, my year 8 daughter has a string of cover lessons every week - large groups doing worksheets supervised in the hall. The school can't get staff. It's a "good" school in an affluent area but housing is expensive. They have recruited quite a lot from overseas but the new teachers arrive, see how expensive housing is and what crappy conditions they have to work in and leave either to return home or to move into London which, while even more expensive has a lot more going on.

It's an impossible situation. Yet even now some older, experienced teachers are being "managed out" because they are too expensive for the budget to allow. Schools desperately, desperately need an increase in funding and the whole sector needs an overhaul in terms of working conditions. Gove with his constant teacher-bashing and dry, uninspiring, narrow curriculum has done dreadful damage to recruitment and retention.

I agree with you, @Mercymymercyme . What a choice we've had! Terrible.
Incompetent politicians, a gawd awful DfE and clueless education secretaries.

I suppose that’s why schools aren’t telling parents.

Our school do tell us. We get email updates on staffing shortages and which subjects they're trying to recruit for.

The strikes are not the biggest factor in disrupting education here. The poor retention and difficulties recruiting are the problem. Teaching is not seen as attractive. Headteachers are telling staff to resign if they don't like it. Ticking time bomb.

oh, and don't forget OFSTED. When you know you aren't doing an optimal job because you don't have the staffing, time or resources, they inspect you and tell you that publicly, you are 'inadequate'. They even tell you what you need to do to be less inadequate. In fact you could even tel them what the problem is. 'Deep Dives', 'observations', 'learning walks' and leadership teams. Sounds like hell

it suits certain right wing politicians when people do not THINK at all.

But of course we will all suffer when the economy collapses because we simply don't have the home-grown talent and knowledge. Take DT for example - completely minimised in Gove's curriculum changes. Now there are barely enough qualified DT teachers and anyone with Design/Technology skills can earn far more elsewhere. Many schools now don't offer DT as they can't staff it. So that's fewer potential R&D, STEM candidates for the future. It's the same with science. For a country which has such a strong history of innovation and invention, it's a travesty that future generations won't have these skills because of a lack of educational options.

The world-class artists/musicians/ sportspeople of the future are increasingly going to come only from private schools. I was educated in the 80s and early 90s when education was also starved of funding but there were always enough teachers. For every subject I had a qualified subject-specific teacher. The only subject taught by random teachers was PSHE. I had access to cheap peripatetic music lessons, a council-funded orchestra, council-funded sports groups. None of that is available to my own kids.

Oh, the "learning walks". Coming in when you don't expect them, watching for 20mins, then getting an email about what you're not doing, ie catering to 31 individual children with individual needs with optimum outcomes and notable progression. In 20 minutes.

I agree that pay is too low for teachers. But I also think we don’t place sufficient emphasis and focus on behaviour - we, as parents, need to take some responsibility for the number of teachers leaving the profession. Too many of our children aren’t behaving well in the classroom and, when we are told that by a teacher, we defend our children and don’t listen to what we’re being told.

I’m really worried about this, to the point I’m wondering if I need to start desperately scraping money together to try and find private secondary education for DC, who is only in reception.

@JamesGiantPledge1 - that's an excellent and very significant point. Thank you.

The whole education system is a mess right now. Schools can’t afford older experienced teachers because they are too expensive so they are often bullied out. They are replaced by young teachers who are trained to believe that they are capable of being promoted to management positions, most of them aren’t and this leads to weak leadership. Standards of behaviour have declined massively with virtually no consequences. Teachers are being bullied by groups of students and parents. A growing number of students see school as an inconvenience, they have little desire to learn. The paperwork has increased dramatically since I started teaching 20 years ago. All of these factors have led to a retention crisis as well as a decrease in the numbers choosing teacher training. I am very glad my DC are no longer in the education system!

Oh god it's so depressing
I was completely in the dark, it's only that I have a teacher friend who told me about what is happening in my ds school
It's a sinking ship tbh. I am completely depressed

Yes I’m aware. It’s shit. My dds maths class is now a class of 60

Tutoring is another good way round to support them

Mumsnetters forget it's not just the bright children (who are the only type who exist on here) that need an education. Pay isn't enough. Full radical reform is required.

In the same way we need to protect healthcare for the most in need by encouraging self care and lifestyle changes the same is true for education. Those who need academic support should have it, those who need vocational training should be able to access it younger than they do now.

Comprehensive education doesn't work. Not every child is going to university. Not every child is going to get a level 4 or 5 in maths and English, let's stop forcing the issue now!

I am aware of the supply teachers/TAs covering classes, but it was the same when I was at secondary in the 90s, except we had less resources then😕

A friend of mines daughter qualified 2 years ago, (she has already left mainstream teaching), she had a placement in a secondary school, came home crying after day two, said it was hell, teachers have no control, kids throw stuff, ignore, swear at her, have their phones on all the time, talk over her ect, is this true or exaggerated?
If this is true, then no wonder there are no teachers, so its not just down to being under paid, and heavy amounts of paperwork, but down to lack of support and lack of discipline, which surely begins at home.

Pay them more money then schools will be staffed.

Society now values, finance people, “content creators and footballers more than those who actually give back to society. It’s ridiculous.

Not surprising to hear sadly.

I do the recruitment for an independent school.

Normally by Easter all of our roles are filled for September.

Not this year. Still onboarding and term ends next week.

Pretty sure we pay more than state teachers would get, and obviously longer holidays.

So even ignoring the government issues. There are must be less people staying/going into teaching it would seem. I think potentially another Covid knock on effect.