Not to send my children to private school even though I can afford it

[AdamRyan]

I believe in comprehensive education and think children should all be educated together, to improve social mobility and prevent a "brain drain" where less privileged children go to some schools, and more privileged go to others.
Am I in the minority and being naive?

YANBU - comprehensive schools are the way to go
YABU - I'd send my children private if I could

Funnily enough, you will find almost everyone agrees that all children deserve a good education no matter which sector they educate their children in. There are a lot of other things that all children deserve but sadly do not get due to circumstances completely out of their control.

You seem to be misunderstanding what the private school advocates are saying. They are saying that those who take the moral ground that they have actively chosen to avoid private education when they had the funds to provide (like the OP of this post) actually have access to a decent state education due to the location of their house. And as a result, it is much easier to take the moral high ground and make out as though they are doing it out of principles.

If the alternative to private was a failing state school where classes are constantly disrupted and bullying was rife, I am fairly certain they would not be making the same decision and claiming moral superiority. Equally if the teenage version of me was your child and was close to ending their life because of school experience and you had the money to get out of it, are you seriously telling me you would never ever pay for it?! Because I would spend every last penny I have to make sure my child does not experience that feeling. It stays with you for life. If you want to tell me you will never ever pay to get your child out of that situation because it gives them an advantage - be it through private education or private healthcare - then yes I do judge you

This is anecdata but I'm not sure if private school is the answer to bullying, obviously in your case, but I know of two people who tried to end their life due to the relentless bullying at private school and the feeling of not being enough due to academic pressure from private school culture.

In general I think bullying exists in both sectors sadly.

People do have those principles though it is not just because of circumstance. You can't buy in catchment where I live as it is the lottery allocation system. House prices are steep but it has no bearing on school allocation. That is why my DS has friends from all backgrounds

@Goldenbear private schooling is no golden ticket away from bullying. There are poor schools in every sector and I am under no illusion there. And you’re right that pressure from a school itself (particularly an academic private) can also lead to deterioration in mental health

In my case, bullying started because of the colour of my skin. My children attend a school which is extremely diverse and different skin colours and ethnicities are not even blinked at. I’ve chosen their school very carefully because of the nurturing environment and inclusive nature and hope it stays that way. One of the big advantages with going private is that we have choice rather than being confined to the school we are allocated. And that is why I went down that road

You will find very few people will apply principles where it is at a clear detriment to their child. It is human nature to want the best for your offspring. Doesn’t mean they won’t advocate for changes in society at the same time

especially not in a country that is so class based and that refuses to tax wealth and land properly.

Justanothermagic how should land be taxed?

'What does a "much richer experience" mean exactly?'

Teacher's from a variety of backgrounds, with different skills, experiences. Private school teachers are all very much cut from the same ( posh) cloth.
Children from different backgrounds, parents from different backgrounds.

P

That’s very much not true of teachers in the private sector in my experience.

Usernamehell - I'm sure you're right that some parents choose state because they have the choice of a good one, but that is definitely not the case for plenty of parents including myself. Schools were not a consideration when I moved to where I live pre kids.

That’s very much not true of teachers in the private sector in my experience.

Nor me. Whoda where on earth do you get that idea from? How many private school teachers have you met? Some have taught in both sectors - so are they ‘posh’ in the private school and then when they set foot in a state school the poshness somehow evaporates?

You must think all private school parents are stupid. We aren't, by the way.

If your child, god forbid, needed treatment for an illness and your options were pay for private which you could afford, or go through NHS where the treatment is the same, then it doesn't matter what you choose or why. If you could pay for private and the NHS treatment was inferior, would you still go through the NHS, because, "principles"?

“Justanothermagic how should land be taxed?”

Flat rate of eg 0.5-1% on total net wealth (asset value minus debt) per individual. Let’s say I own a house worth 1 million, a rental property, bank accounts (exclude pensions) add it all up and pay [0.5%] tax on it per year. It also means people have to then make their money work properly to pay the tax.

However, I fully acknowledge that the wealth tax concept needs to be an OECD wide concept. It really is overdue and requires a concerted effort. It is as urgent as fair taxation for companies across jurisdictions.

I would have benefitted from a private school as I was born musically gifted. My parents had an old keyboard and I used to copy tunes off the tv. No matter how much everyone was terrible at supporting my gift I still came out going to one of the top music colleges. When I got there I realised most people had come from private schools, even then I didnt really notice why that might be. Now I have dc in private schools the difference between that school bed my state school is phenomenal,

I suppose it depends on the dc if it would be detrimental. My oldest competes in a lot of sport, their school allows them lots of time off and sends them home with work to do if they're missing longer times out of school. I don't think they'd get the same in a comp so I wouldn't send them to one personally, I don't think shutting down private schools or avoiding them would somehow magically transform the music/sports departments of most state schools either.

So you still went to a top music college 'despite' your state education, so what extra benefit would going private have done?

For a musical child, a huge amount! This is a big part of the reason we chose independent schools. The difference in quality of provision for music is night and day.

Yes there may be bullying in private school, but here in Scotland state schools are not able to effectively discipline the bullies due to the ‘rights of a child to an education’. 🙄. Private schools can and do kick people out if they assault other kids. State schools cannot. Massive, massive difference.

And the private school my kid attends does extras such has whole afternoons of sport tailored to sports my child is interested in, they fit in non-curriculum subjects such as cookery or woodwork or photography which are excellent when the exam subjects my child studies are all academic. The best part is that you don’t have to go full battleaxe, pointing out to the school the big gaps the endless supply teachers have left in my child’s exam syllabus, I don’t have to constantly, constantly remind the school about my child’s dyslexia, I don’t have to spend my time desperately scrambling to find tutors to fill gaps left by teachers. They just run schools in the way all schools should be run.

However, I fully acknowledge that the wealth tax concept needs to be an OECD wide concept. It really is overdue and requires a concerted effort. It is as urgent as fair taxation for companies across jurisdictions.

Justanothermagic so this would be for property and wealth in the UK? I mean if someone owned a house in London worth £5 million, and numerous properties abroad then they’d only be taxed on their valuable house?

This is an interesting thread. A couple of things have jumped out at me - one is that people choose state schools because they want their children to mix with those from a different background. This sounds laudable but can we spare a thought for the children who would be in a state school regardless and are expected to give their more middle class classmates “real life” experience?

An old housemate used to get very cross when parents came into the school to complain that they wanted their child to play with children of different backgrounds. She made sure that all the children worked with lots of different people but they tended to choose to play with those who were most similar to them. As far as she was concerned, if a child was happy, had friends and was making good progress that was a nice result - she wasn’t there to engineer it so middle class parents could feel good about the mixture of people their children played with.

Heh. What sort of person behaves like this.
Actually I know the answer to that.

Seriously, teachers have the best stories.

It really depends upon circs. As PPs have said, how do the alternatives stack up and how big a sacrifice (if any) would you need to make to afford the private school.

If no sacrifices and alternative school is bad, then of course you should send your DC to private school. It’s one of those where if everyone did it, that may change things but they won’t so you’re only affecting yourself and your DC with your decisions. If OTOH, the schools are much of a muchness and the private option v unaffordable, then the money could be spent on better things.

With my DC having experienced both types of school they have had teachers with all sorts of backgrounds. DDs boarding school had a couple of Cambridge Masters (both lovely, one in tweed) and another was a classics teacher who was seriously blagging it. My DD had been taught Latin in her previous comp by a famous titled scholar so he wasn't doing it for the cash!
My own alma mata, a very experimental 1970s comp was full of hippies and latterly a convicted pervert. I don't believe a posh accent makes a better teacher. Kindness is the key. And a love for your subject. My mother taught history and she was fabulous at it.

‘You must think all private school parents are stupid. We aren't, by the way.’
what?
No, just wealthy.
i work in the Secondary sector, Europe wide, mostly U.K., state and private schools.
My opinion about the diversity - or lack of - and experience in teaching staff in independent schools is shaped by my experience of them.

‘This sounds laudable but can we spare a thought for the children who would be in a state school regardless and are expected to give their more middle class classmates “real life” experience?’

What are you on?? Is that honesty what you think happens in state schools? Jesus wept.

like the kids with dad’s who are brickies and mum’s who are carers or cleaners are giving the children of GPs and lawyers some kind of workshop on what it’s like living on an estate or surviving without a maths tutor…

Yes, wealthy for the most part. Highly educated and wealthy. The highly educated part is a clue as to why the best private schools don't tend to have crap teachers.