Not to send my children to private school even though I can afford it

[AdamRyan]

I believe in comprehensive education and think children should all be educated together, to improve social mobility and prevent a "brain drain" where less privileged children go to some schools, and more privileged go to others.
Am I in the minority and being naive?

YANBU - comprehensive schools are the way to go
YABU - I'd send my children private if I could

We don't have Grammar Schools (well, we do in name, but there are none as State Schools) in Scotland. Yes, there are students coming from elsewhere in the UK (and worldwide!) to the areas I work with, who come from that system, but the programmes I work with are predominantly Scottish students, because of the way they're funded.

Exactly what I was thinking. Only the most academic schools will consider administering IB, majority of which are private and a tiny proportion are selective grammars. The state comprehensive - which is what the overwhelming majority of the population have access to - provide nothing of the sort. Their range of A level subjects and enrichment opportunities are increasingly limited thanks to understaffing and underfunding.

As a result, the point made by @HollaHolla is pretty meaningless

Amd you've come to the conclusion that 22 schools in the country produce the most well rounded students. OK then.

There was a report a couple of weeks ago from a think tank on the possible impact of VAT https://www.edsk.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/EDSK-VAT-on-private-school-fees.pdf

Those figures have, of course, been picked apart too. It's frustrating that Labour haven't put out their own detailed caclulations and explanation of what the policy would entail.

Wow, talk about defensive, seems you are worried all the time about the perception of the education you bought your children! Worried the social segregation is not working?

They’re not the only ones that have questioned the figures. Also, I’m not claiming they are without bias, any more than the sources labour are relying on are. What I am saying is that Labour’s proposals and claims are far from a done deal, and it’s best not to celebrate something happening before it actually has.

It is interesting that labour hit back at the report by going from ‘we will charge VAT on schools fees’ to ‘we will keep the option open’ though.

So you are citing underfunding as the issue but on the other hand dismiss any policies that would help with the funding of state schools most deprived pupils.

As if @HollaHolla s perception is in any way meaningful 😅

@HollaHolla I will back you up on the IB, my DS applied for this at his 'outstanding' Academy. He declined his scholarships and the school cancelled it at the 11th hour. This leafy school was famous for offering IB such that the local boarding school shared facilities. The reason was two key teachers failed to start their new posts. Luckily my son was resilient and quickly chose 4 A levels. There was no redress and private school scholarships and deposits have to be paid before state places are offered. If you accept a private place and don't need or want it they will persue you for a term's fees. Not always the gentleman they profess to be!

I don’t think experts in the Labour Party actually believe that potentially charging VAT on private school fees for 4-18 year olds will be a huge revenue bringer. It is more of a cheap vote winner than anything. It is a class war type policy. I suppose Brexit was too. Under EU legislation charging VAT on education was illegal. It is therefore pretty pro Brexit to do this kind of thing. Since the 70s the far left wanted private schools and grammar schools abolished. The view was always that keeping private schools would undermine the comprehensive idea completely. In fact, getting rid of grammar schools is exactly what fuelled the private sector boom. So in many ways, the Labour Party indirectly fuelled the private sector boom and therefore many in the far left abhor private schools. However, given it is a cost of living crisis and a funding crisis in the state sector - now is not the time to mess with Education, especially not in an immediate post Covid world; when we need well educated graduates. Who cares what sector they come from if people are happy to pay for it? Charging them even more right now makes no sense.

The real issue is teacher shortages and there are lots of teachers in the private sector. However, like with doctors practising in the private health care sector, if they are happier there, let them be. I doubt they will move over to the state sector in huge droves. It is the working conditions there, not just pay, that largely put those persons off. Overcrowding, poor facilities, now Asbestos scares, huge amounts of paperwork, no curriculum freedom, unrealistic targets - the list goes on and on.

It may happen that under a Labour government that the VAT exemption is removed, but this is unlikely to bring in anything close to the £1.6bn being bruited about, because:

Once, the VAT exemption is removed, private schools will reclaim the VAT paid on outgoings like any other business, so the 20% figure is likely to be reduced to about 5% of receipts.

Two, the range of pupils leaving when their parents can't find the additional sums is estimated at between 5% (by the Labour Party) and 25% (the Independent Schools Council). If the latter is correct then any receipts will be negligible as the state will have those pupils added to state school rolls.

If forced into VAT registration, then a large proportion of any VAT paid for investment in buildings and facilities over a decade or so would be reclaimed by the schools, as they would be permitted to do. Quite a windfall for some schools.

And finally, as it is possible to pre-pay school fees ahead of the introduction of VAT, the exceptionally well-to-do would fund fees upfront -- saving themselves 20% VAT minus the interest paid (if they borrowed the money). If they had it tucked away in the school fee fund, they would forfeit only the interest income.

In other words, it's a bit of a red herring.

How can you back her up on the IB when your ds didn't even do it? Good example of yet another state school cancelling it, so that must be 21 schools now that @HollaHolla says produces the most well rounded kids.

Just because something costs more, doesn't mean it's better.

If forced into VAT registration, then a large proportion of any VAT paid for investment in buildings and facilities over a decade or so would be reclaimed by the schools, as they would be permitted to do. Quite a windfall for some schools

Wow I'd forgotten this. Yes that will mean a huge windfall for dds school!

Rude. Very rude.
I think everyone who is reading the thread still can draw their own conclusions about who is making meaningful points and who is sticking to a dogmatic line.

It's ruder to suggest someone should regret their parenting choices because some made up person on the internet doesn't like them, but OK.

Who suggested that? I think your defensive position is making you read things that aren't there....

Terryer, sticking a laughing emoji on the end of your post is hardly the highest form of debate

I have no beef with you @Terryer , although you seem to wish to try to disprove my comments; which come from a lot of years of experience.

I don't know where you're getting your list of 21, or 22 (who knows!) Schools from; but I've just logged back into our admissions reference sheet, and I have a list of almost three times that amount of Schools offering the IB in 2022-23.

There's really careful work done in Uni Admissions, to ensure there are students from a variety of backgrounds. I'm simply saying that, for the programmes I work with, and my experience, students who have undertaken certain types of study, feel best prepared.

Please feel free to go back to arguing with whomever you wish. I'm out. Obviously my experience, knowledge, and professional background, mean nothing. 🙄

Goldenbear · Today 12:40
Ultimately, we can't afford to send our DC to private school so why should my DC not get as good opportunities as DC at private school?

You’ve posted 100s of posts on this and other threads about how awful private schools are with their eating disorders and unempathetic students who can’t compose rap music etc so presumably even if you could afford it you wouldn't send your children to private school.

Labour are completely failing to take account of the diversity of provision in the independent sector. It’s not all about Eton (which will be able to withstand whatever measures they take). What about the independent SN schools, the specialist music schools, the schools which already operate on a needs blind basis? A lot of quite precious babies will be chucked out with the bath water if they aren’t careful.

Even with all this taken in to account it would produce anet revenue boost that could fund the poorest children in society who have everything stacked against them by stint of birth what civilised country would not want that?

It’s not specifically going to the poorest though, is it? I won’t have a choice, but paying even more for other people’s children when I also pay tax for an education system I don’t use doesn’t fill me with joy, actually. Especially as it will just be frittered into the void, most likely.

Perhaps when the private schools close down and all the pupils are state educated instead there will be a sad decline in the quality of rap music 😔

@AdamRyan not sure what I said out of turn either! I think the IB is a great qualification but is hard and intensive. If you are good with MFL great, if not avoid it. No one has the magic answer to schooling. If so it would be like Tesco ( or Waitrose if you wish!).
I think to want inclusiveness is admirable but the system is on its knees and no one cares enough to sort it out. Every post holder in goverment needs experience in that profession. Education secretary, a former teacher, health secretary, a doctor etc. Otherwise you are taking absolute sh*re. When political post holders have no real life experience it helps no one.
The house of commons was formed for the common man and that is sadly lacking.

“Unfortunately I think both NHS and education are being intentionally run down by the Tories so as to "encourage" people to go private and shrink the state. To me that means widening social inequality and causing severe problems for those who have no choice but to use public services.”

I don’t like the Tories either, but I do not think this statement is true.

We simply have a very ageing and unhealthy population now and the NHS was never founded to deal with that and we simply just tax PAYE mainly and that is not enough revenue. Companies not paying enough tax, wealthy old people not paying tax, people not on PAYE not paying full tax, part time workers, the list goes on and on.

We need wealth taxes and working every extra hour needs to actually pay and be worthwhile. That is just not the case anymore. And childcare is too expensive as well.