To wonder if Labour actually will be any better?

[Baabaagreysheep]

I think like most people I am keen to see the back of the current bunch, but I am not confident that anything will massively change for the better. Maybe that’s a bit pessimistic, but I feel that while some things will improve some will get worse - and some sort of at the same time, so I’m expecting my salary to go up but also my workload to go up!

Thinking back to when Labour were last in power it was another world, really. Interested in views.

Globally we are seeing a lurch to authoritarianism/far right politics and it is terrifying

So far left regimes such as the former Soviet Union and today, Venezuela, aren’t terrifying?

The truth is that we’d be where we are whoever had won the last election, with or without Brexit

some factors, sure. Covid, Ukraine, climate change - we have no control over any of that.

Would we be in the exact position we’re in now with neglected utilities and social frameworks to the extent we’re seeing now after a decade of austerity and rampant profiteering… I don’t think so.

Between 1997 and 2010 Labour was continuously in government. Here are Labour’s top 50 achievements during those years.

It's just a shame that between the post-Brexit fall-out and the Corbyn purges that so many of those that could deliver a repeat of 1997-2010 have been removed from the party. I'd take a repeat of Blair-Brown as they were in 1997, but I would really struggle to put a X in the box for the current Labour party. I did so in 2017 and 2019 and felt sick to my stomach for doing so.

By the time Labour win a GE, any sensible rich person will have made provisions to ensure that they will pay not a penny more in tax under a Labour government.

@BunnyBetChetwynd All good and well pasting list of achievements, but its apples and oranges as you very well know.

In labours period you have highlighted, did they have to deal with a global viral epidemic, a war with Russia and the effects on grain, gas, etc.. The know affects on the climate and issues relating to climate change i could go on. But you are not comparing like for like.

Your basically gaslighting, many of us now are being pushed into the 40p tax bracket and Labour will be stinging us all harder and we know it.

This is the sort of childish hysteria that alt-right media feeds its viewers and you lap it right up like nodding donkeys!

808kate do you not think the rich should be heavily taxed? There’s plenty on mumsnet that do.

Yes, but how can Starmer be accused of being wishy washy and extreme all at the same time? 😆

Honestly, where have all these people come from who support this current party who have repeatedly lied and been found out, broken their own rules, sent covid infected people into nursing homes, lined the pockets of their chums and benefactors with money during the pandemic, failed to prepare for a pandemic, snogged their mistresses up against the wall in their offices during lockdown, failed to get any grip on immigration, trashed the economy, enable shareholders and the ultra rich to profit at the expense of the ordinary person in the street, failed to build housing, wasted billions on PPE, voted to allow sewage to be poured into our waterways and the sea, allowed food banks to become the norm, repeatedly failed to address animal rights issues, lied to The Queen, allowed trophy hunting to continue, failed to ever properly address the Russia report, allowed child poverty to grow to such an extent.......and on and on and on.

13 years of this.
What sort of person do you have to be to excuse this?

I have to say that choosing the wrong Milliband Brother was the start of the downfall of recent Labour.

They are just the opposition, their stances are vague and wishy washy. Their only given is just to oppose, their fully costed mandates are from year 9 economics.

They need to focus on who they are, and run with that, yes, they may lose some fringe members, but it is needed to be a worthy opposition.

To be fair, they will inevitably win by default, due to the Tory's excpetional ability to self destruct.

All politicians are pretty much the same. Things might get a bit better under Labour, and they are pretty much certain to win the next general election, but they don't have a magic wand or any resources that the Tories don't also have access to.

You think rich men staying here while siphoning off all their profits to the Caymans is vital for our economy? Give money to poor people and they buy the things they need, stimulating the economy. Rich people bypass the UK economy altogether.

Not gaslighting. Posting facts.
Is your income your only concern?

The flimsiness of this, the ‘make Brexit work’ idea, gender ideology, Labour in Wales and so on all similar

'Rich' people - and by that I include higher/highest rate tax payers as well as those with significant generational or newly created wealth - are absolutely vital to the UK economy.

Barbadossunset Yes, I do think the rich should be taxed more. What's your point? You basically tried to make out the next Labour Govt will be far left, which is (thankfully) nonsense.

AgathaSpencerGregson · Today 13:53

According to keir, it is all going to be paid for by VAT on private schools and abolishing non dom status. What worries me is the possibility that he actually believes that. I think he’s stupid enough.

Keir Starmer may be lots of things, but he is not stupid.

Yep Starmer isn’t a time machine, the 90s were very different globally

Well my income directly affects me and my family, so yes. If are you going to say I should not put my family or income first as that's the lefts ideological mantra you can shove it!

My family always comes first along with my financial stability to provide the best for them.

Does anyone else love these types of threads....in all the years I've been on MN, I've never seen one single post that would influence my voting in a GE in any way whatsoever.

@chupachucks

@BunnyBetChetwynd All good and well pasting list of achievements, but its apples and oranges as you very well know.

In labours period you have highlighted, did they have to deal with a global viral epidemic, a war with Russia and the effects on grain, gas, etc.. The know affects on the climate and issues relating to climate change i could go on. But you are not comparing like for like.

Because these are historical facts it's impossible to completely compare like for like. A better comparison would be if you could provide a similar list of achievements for the 13 years of Conservative government, albeit in differing circumstances. Over to you.

What have the Tories achieved in the last 13 years.

They bankrupted the UK.
They destroyed our reputation on the international stage.
They destroyed our public services.
They broke the Social Contract.
They turned Britain into an unstable, uninvestable country.
They have killed the Conservative Party.

It's simple we either keep with the lying cheating self-interested tories or we go with the least worst option. - politics is broken - we have 2 party system and currently its like trying to pick which STD you'd like - we need the tories out and we need PR, otherwise it'll always be the same shitshow.

Quite.

Heh. Apparently he thinks 99.9% of women don’t have penises. Either he’s stupid or he thinks we are.
in all seriousness, not up to the job. Just about managed as DPP, heavily supported by others. Not up to PM. It’s Boris all over again, without the jokes this time

Rich people bypass the UK economy altogether.

Mavis - Not all do - if Lord Bamford were to close down the Uttoxeter JCB factory and move operations abroad then that would affect the local economy.
Not all stately homes are owned by the National Trust. If their owners were to move abroad then it would cost the government a lot to run them.
After the war the Labour government considered nationalising some of the grandest houses - Blenheim, Chatsworth etc, not because they wanted them but because they liked the idea of booting out the privileged owners.
Then when they were shown how much this would actually cost, they gave up on the idea.