To wonder if Labour actually will be any better?

[Baabaagreysheep]

I think like most people I am keen to see the back of the current bunch, but I am not confident that anything will massively change for the better. Maybe that’s a bit pessimistic, but I feel that while some things will improve some will get worse - and some sort of at the same time, so I’m expecting my salary to go up but also my workload to go up!

Thinking back to when Labour were last in power it was another world, really. Interested in views.

Labour don't have magic answers to the major problems we're facing like climate change, cost of living, inflation, housing shortage, mass immigration, sewage pollution in our waters, Ukraine war, the culture war, cyber crime, disruptive AI.

But they will come in and raise tax on the middle class to pay public servants like teachers, nurses, doctors etc a little better.

That will be enough for some people.

It'll be a good election to lose.

Take a good look at what is happening in Wales.

The Welsh NHS is collapsing faster than England. Zero financial accountability.

The Senedd making decisions without any mandate and pressing ahead against all opposition.

Google RSE if you want to know what's happening in schools along with the poor educational results

We've lost our local buses due to lack of funding and almost all desperately needed new road building has been cancelled so h we have no option but to drive.

( I am Welsh and used to be proud of it but no more)

I think that a lot of our problems are going to take a long time to solve, whoever is in charge. However, correct or not, I do think that Labour have more of an understanding, and will work harder for us 'normal' folk, so hopefully that will help.

Undoubtedly some things would be better and some worse. The overall impact will vary from person to person.

Personally I despair at the lot of them. I'm politically homeless so not sure I'll even be able to vote.

It's not really a fair comparison though is it? It's devolved but it doesn't have autonomy. Whitehall still controls many things, including all budgets.

I don’t think Labour will be able to improve things in the short term, if they’re elected. I’m not confident things will get better any time soon.

I just hope it’s not worse.

Labour don’t have a magic wand but they’re a damn sight better than a party populated by the rich and funding only the rich.

So they're mismanaging the money and autonomy they have and the answer is to give them more money and more autonomy? 🤔

It’s stuff like this that blows my mind. The billions spent on NHS, pensions, benefits. “They fund only the rich.” Are these people just taking the piss and if they are, can they find a new joke? This got old

Fat Keir thinks it is. Go figure.

They can’t be worse than the Tories. But you can bet your bottom dollar that the Tories of tomorrow will be even worse than those of today.

I don't think so.

Basically the UK can't borrow more money. So all increases to government budgets will have to be funded going forwards.

I believe all governments are pretty bad at investment. Labour will just take the money malinvested by the Tories and malinvest it in their own projects.

They will also tax the middle class (who these days are effectively catagorised as anyone working) and use this take to fund more public sector/benefits etc.

People (often on the left) say there is some mythical reservoir of money held by "the rich" that if we somehow get hold of it then everyones life will be full of milk and honey. I am not sure that this exists, and even if it does, I doubt very much Labour will be able to get hold of it.

If you are largely reliant on the state then you will probably do better under Labour. And largely not reliant on the state you will probably do worse.

Re Wales, Scotland, NI etc the politicians will do what it best for them. Which generally appears to be to take credit for anything good, and blame Westminister for anything bad, regardless of whether it is controlled by Tories or Labour.

But they will come in and raise tax on the middle class to pay public servants like teachers, nurses, doctors etc a little better.

I support a change from Tory’s but im scared this will be the change. Yes we need more funding for teachers / doctors but we end up with a lower class and upper class. There will be no middle class left, with the cost of living / mortgage payments etc i know various middle class family’s that are struggling.

According to keir, it is all going to be paid for by VAT on private schools and abolishing non dom status. What worries me is the possibility that he actually believes that. I think he’s stupid enough.

Labour don’t have any magic answers and may well be a bit incompetent, and need to learn what a woman is

Tories don’t have any magic answers, have definitely been proven incompetent, and in many cases are clearly only in politics for their own/their mates’ interests and couldn’t give a tiny shit about the average voter

I agree there isn’t going to be a magical transformation but it’s a case of the lesser of two evils

This is how I feel.

But teachers, nurses, doctors ARE the middle classes. It says something for how badly the Tories have damaged finances.

Until somebody figures out how to reverse the long standing trend towards increasing wealth inequality, that's about all Labour can and will do.

Not until they get the extreme left identity politics people back in their box. They are going to be the equivalent of the Tory Euroskeptics in the level of destruction they are capable of causing to UK politics. Post truth BS that even moderate Labour Party ideologues have taken on board.

People on the left are far more drawn than conservatives are to utopian ideas and the belief that society should be reshaped in the pursuit of those utopias. Plus they often nurture spite towards those who they disapprove of. This makes them prone to all sorts of silliness, including gender bollocks.

Do with think increases in tax will be on the higher rate rather than the basic rate?

Of course he's not stupid.

What utter bollocks.

Fatigue and complacency kill off any government after long enough. And quite right too. It's Labour's turn for government now. But if you think Labour will do anything to upset the very rich, the banks, the big corporates or the pension funds you are in for a shock. Nor will Labour fund the doctors, the nurses or any other client group. There's no money to do so. If there was it would have been given out already. It's the covid bill.

And if you think there aren't greedy or dodgy people in Labour you're in for even more of a shock.

What they will have is a better relationship with the trade unions. But that will inevitably end in tears because there's not a hope in hell of Labour repealing any trade union legislation.

There will be some fiddling at the edges. There always is. But like any government the markets and world events will decide their electoral fate. Blair was lucky (until 9/11 and the aftermath). Starmer had better hope he is too.

Of course the Tories spend billions on welfare, every government will, they can’t just turn round and say sorry no hospitals or schools or benefits any more, back to the 17th century we go.

But at every turn when there is a more subtle choice to make, they make a choice which favours the well off. They could choose to increase taxes on property gains and inheritance - they don’t. They could restrict tax free investment options which realistically are available only to the rich (like putting larger amounts into pensions). They could means test various old age benefits like free transport and fuel payments. They choose not to, as their core voters are well off 50+.