to think they would feel differently if they had children?

[Violetbeauregardesgum]

Just reflecting that the three most vehemently pro-abortion, abortion on demand up till 40 weeks women I know are all child free. Was talking to one the other day and was taken aback by how uncompromising she was. The 32 week old baby that the woman was imprisoned for aborting was not a baby, all women have the right to end a pregnancy at any point.

I am pro choice but think the 24 week cut off is about right. AIBU to think they would feel differently if they had gone through a pregnancy to term themselves?

Have you raised a disabled baby/child yourself? If you haven't I don't think you should be questioning why the poster should do it when you don't have that life experience yourself.

What utter cheek.

Again, I ask, are you against abortion at a late stage for babies with very severe disabilities or who are likely to die shortly after birth? Do you think it reasonable to make a woman carry a baby for an additional 2, 4, 6 , 8 weeks, knowing that it will dies shortly after birth?

What % of women do you think are wanting to abort at this gestation without there being a medical reason? I think the abortion rate due to just not wanting the child past 15 weeks is less than 1% and that is still 9 weeks earlier than the cut off. The main issue with the 24 week cut off is it only allows a max of 4 weeks to make a decision following information provided at the 20 week scan.

If there were a condition picked up that meant the baby would be born in pain and then die, would it not be better and kinder to abort first? It could be that the issue was only picked up at 34 weeks, should that baby be forced to be born just to die?

OP, you can't assume all childfree or childless women will feel the same. Just as you can't assume that all mothers will feel the same. You are making ridiculous generalisations, as well as stereotyping swathes of women.

I was very strongly for abortion up to a certain stage, but have always been wary of abortion at full term or thereabouts. After children, my opinion on that is the same. However I'd be less likely to consider abortion for myself if I got pregnant again, I'd be more likely to think of it as a baby, as opposed to a foetus, which I did pre children when I got a 9 week abortion myself.

I doubt full term abortion is a law that will ever be passed however. To most people, the thought of taking the life of a full term or almost full term baby would be unthinkable, unless for reasons due to incompatibility with life or the mothers life being at risk.

22 weeks is perfectly legal though. A foetus is not viable at 22weeks and unable to live outside the womb. Completely different to a 32 week foetus - the law (rightly imo) reflects those differences.

The legal limit is 24 weeks. If you limited it to 18-20 weeks you would impede the ability to abort due to abnormalities found on the 20 week scan.

If you make it earlier, you might actually get more abortions as women would feel rushed into making a decision.

The vast majority of abortions happen early, because guess what - nobody decides to delay abortion just for fun.

By all means separate that out if you feel the need to create a hierarchy.

absolutely agree @CoalCraft

I don’t understand why this view doesn’t get more traction.

And more often than not that very short life will be pain filled and harsh

Women who have to make this unbearable decision are often putting the needs of their child first, whilst being vilified for "murdering" them

Haven't RTFT but OP I agree. Since having children there is no way in hell I could support late abortions unless under the circumstances currently allowed in law.
I actually had an early abortion and it is my biggest regret in life, I've never gotten over it 18 years later.
I think overly vocal pro lifers risk playing down the truly horrific procedure of a late term abortion which is likely to leave the mother traumatised for life, and actually put their pro life agenda before the well being of the mother.

I can only assume you have not understood my post.

How do you know they will never be seen again? Many of those who are adopted are curious about their birth mother and attempt to seek her out.

It's the difference between having a biological child out there or not. Of course it's different.

Women are also not incubators for those who want to adopt. If she wants to give birth to a live baby and have them adopted, that's fine. If she wants an abortion, that isn't an adoption and isn't the magical solution people seem to think it is.

Doesn't current abortion law cover disability in that you can abort post 24 weeks if a disability is detected at any stage? I'm sure it used to, not sure if that's changed.

Argh my post should say pro choice where it says pro life

It does and thats partly what people mean when they say "as early as possible as late as necessary"

But those who seek to take away as late as necessary are seeking to take this away. Because the reality is this makes up the vast majority of the as late as necessary group.

am totally pro choice, and I totally agree with the above

YANBU
I am pro choice I am with you in thinking 24weeks cut of is about right. Alot of babies born at 24weeks go on to live full healthy lifes.
I have 3DC and personally could not have a abortion.
With my youngest I was really unsure I wanted them and considered adoption but the minute they were born my mind changed instantly and I couldn't love them anymore than I do.
But each to their own everyone is entitled to the choice within reason that is

To babies born living after a TFMR (if you do not choose to stop their heart by injection), palliative care is given. That's what you agree to when you sign the paperwork.

My baby was born living at 21+4 after a TFMR, he did gasp a few times, and then settled and drifted away peacefully, wrapped in a blanket, warm and loved. He was named, baptised, adored beyond words and was so, so poorly. We sang to him, read him books and cuddled and kissed him. He only knew love and warmth.

Babies are not left gasping for breath on a side somewhere while midwives weep. Babies born living are cared for until they pass. This is the experience of every parent I meet who has lived through the trauma of TFMR, so it's more likely that you don't actually realise what happens.

I'm so torn on this.

The emotional side of my brain tells me the current guidelines are correct and I shudder at the thought of one as late as full term.

However, I do also acknowledge that a baby being brought here when it is not truly wanted or able to be provided for is hardly the best start in life.

Very complex issue, very thought provoking arguments on both sides.

Happily, it's rare that late abortions happen.

I do also think that the way OP framed the original post is a bit provactive.

I think it’s a bit odd that so many people who actively choose to not have kids because they really, really, don’t want them, are frequenting a website with the literal word ‘mums’ in the title and then getting upset and angry when mums have discussions about being mums.

that is extremely odd behaviour.

But still… the OP is not helping matters by provoking them further.

I had an awful pregnancy and was left with horrific birth injuries. I suffered with post natal depression. I love my 6 year old more than anything in the world, he lights up my life. I've always been very pro-choice at any stage. Experiencing what I experienced further cemented my views. No woman should have to go through that.

But in late term abortions the woman still does have to give birth.

It does. I am highlighting the need for the phrase 'early as possible, as late as necessary'.

People always bang on about murdering a baby past 24 weeks but in reality, if a woman were chosing to abort at such a late stage, it is likely to be a very unselfish, horrific decision. That woman shouldn't have to fight to get access to care in that situation which could potentially happen now if their Dr was against abortion.

It must be hard to navigate the world when you are so clueless.