to think they would feel differently if they had children?

[Violetbeauregardesgum]

Just reflecting that the three most vehemently pro-abortion, abortion on demand up till 40 weeks women I know are all child free. Was talking to one the other day and was taken aback by how uncompromising she was. The 32 week old baby that the woman was imprisoned for aborting was not a baby, all women have the right to end a pregnancy at any point.

I am pro choice but think the 24 week cut off is about right. AIBU to think they would feel differently if they had gone through a pregnancy to term themselves?

I am pro choice and I have children. I probably wouldn't have an abortion but my feelings on my own circumstances shouldn't impact another woman's right to access medical care.

OK.

So first our "childfreeness" is wasted because we are...childfree (!) and have fuck all better to do in our meaningless, empty lives while parents slave away.
And now we're not allowed to have our own opinions on abortion because we don't know what it's like to hold our newborns in our arms?

Is there anything else anyone would like to add to the list of things that child free women should and shouldn't be doing/thinking?

But over 24 weeks?

There are points where people have to put themselves second, sorry. I’ve had a kid and the kid is as innocent as the woman.

Why do you draw the line at 24 weeks? have you actually any reason other than that figure is in english law!

This is an interesting argument. No abortion after 24 weeks but you can request to have your baby delivered. So women cannot be forced to be pregnant against their will.

If the woman consents, sure. It shouldn't be forced though.

Why is fostering/adoption being offered as a solution?

Once birth takes place the biological father gets a say in what happens so a woman can't unilaterally decide to put a child up for adoption.

The statistics on abuse in pregnancy are chilling, and the woman should absolutely have the option to get out of that situation, however unpalatable some may find it.

I trust women to make the right choices for themselves, it's pretty disheartening to see so many don't trust women at all.

sorry that was meant to be a ? not a !

YANBU. I’ve been disgusted by those advocating for child destruction - which is what aborting a baby at 34 weeks is. I’ve actually had a bit of a falling out with a friend about it. The cognitive dissonance is staggering - some console women for early term miscarriages, then say abortion up to 36 weeks etc is fine?! And even if you don’t want to be pregnant anymore- no, you shouldn’t have the choice to end the life of a full term baby.

I’m pro choice: to the time limit, or later to save the mother’s life. If that isn’t good enough for some, then tough. I am also a mother who had a tough pregnancy, bad birth and PND. But after 24 weeks is too late.

Don't open that question up or someone is bound to ask why you are on Mumsnet at all 🤣🤣 That's not a dig by the way, I was here for 10 years before I had children.

And I have to agree, there's been some weird threads about child free people recently.

A pregnancy is terminated when the foetus is removed. Regardless of whether the foetus is alive or dead at the time, the pregnancy still ends.

Again, I ask why 24 weeks? why have you decided that is your personal cut off point?

But don't you 'give birth' after a certain gestation anyway?

This.

I don't think it has anything to do with whether you've gone through pregnancy.

I thinks folks more or less fall into camps.
Anti abortion regardless of term, rape or the mother is a child
Anti abortion except for very limited conditions
Pro choice up to a certain point
Pro choice up to any point

And of course you can be pro choice but feel aborting a healthy term baby is wrong. I fall into this category. I can't imagine the desperation that would drive you to this. And I also strongly feel the woman who aborted her term baby needs help, not condemnation.

Not exactly the same as it wasn't instant for me, but similar in that having a child really solidified my views on a woman's right to choose. I had hyperemesis in my pregnancy and I was so sick subsequently depressed I seriously considered termination in the first trimester even though it was a PLANNED pregnancy. So after it all, the awful birth, the long recovery, the PND etc etc etc...I've never felt so strongly about it. It's so, so hard and that was all for a planned baby. It's just inhumane to force anyone to go through any of that if they don't want to.

Should early term abortions not be allowed then if women are comforted when they've had an early term miscarriage?

This is my thinking, yes. Personally I think at 24 weeks the chance if survival without significant disability is pretty slim, so I'd put the cut-off at 28 weeks, with "normal" abortion available until then, though my understanding of survival and disability rates might be out of date or misremembered.

I am pro choice and work in healthcare with women needing terminations. I would only offer them support and never judgement.
I do think remember getting a weird feeling I still can’t explain when I went for my 12 week scan and saw a fully formed ‘baby’ kicking away and thinking the volume of women I’ve referred to terminate at this stage.
I agree and support the law we have. We shouldn’t be flippant about terminations- we should support women to access contraception and abortions as early as possible. We should also give women the support and space in later pregnancy to decide what can do that she is comfortable with but isn’t necessarily an abortion. A late stage abortion is a really traumatic affair to be honest.

A pregnancy is terminated when a foetus is aborted
A pregnancy ends when a baby is born

There's a difference which is why abortion and adoption have different names.

Indeed, leave having children or not out of it. It's getting ridiculous with the pro-natalism on here in the last few days and the childfree bashing. Women are able to formulate an opinion independent from their procreational status.

Having had two miscarriages of very wanted babies, I found the 'it's only a foetus / collection of cells' comments to be truly hurtful. I know its a different point entirely from other women's legal rights as it was my emotional investment that made it painful but I do wonder would someone who experienced this feel so detached.

I cannot get my head round the fact that some people think that babies should be allowed to be aborted at full term. To me it is like giving birth and then murdering my child. I’m sorry if my views upset people, but the thought of a healthy baby dying like this is inconceivable to me and very upsetting.

If the mother wants an abortion, does she not have to actually give birth (my dsil’s baby died before birth, at 38 weeks gestation and she had to go through labour to deliver her dead son)? Surely the best thing would be for the woman to give birth normally and the baby be taken away, without her seeing it, and placed for adoption.

So after it all, the awful birth, the long recovery, the PND etc etc etc...I've never felt so strongly about it. It's so, so hard and that was all for a planned baby. It's just inhumane to force anyone to go through any of that if they don't want to.

None of those things can be avoided later in pregnancy though - late termination will not prevent a birth, recovery or PND.

All of this.
There's a word for choosing to end the life of a person whose existence is inconvenient to you.
I'm pro choice but not pro unlimited choice. After a certain point you'll be giving birth either way.