Would I be a scab

[Badlands1]

NC
My union have voted to strike. I have voted not to - am I scab if I work? I don't disagree with the unions requests but I am not happy with the effects the strike will have.

@LividHot I understand your point completely. I know of teachers whose household circumstances mean that the loss of two days pay will have minimal impact and they would be and are prepared to strike however often is necessary.

If you are a single parent, or the only income provider and you’re in very straitened circumstances, or in debt, I can see why you’d need to consider very carefully whether the loss of pay would mean that you don’t have enough money to buy food or pay a bill. That’s very different and it’s not fair to judge people who might lose everything because of it.

Of course it’s a good idea to be in a union and most people are because they want to be afforded protection if necessary. If you fundamentally disagree with the stance your union and its members have taken, then you should resign, as OP has indicated they will do.

Moral choices aren’t black and white and circumstances change opinions.

You're incorrect. If someone doesn't want to accept the collective decision, they'll need to leave the union.

No, I'm not. And no, they don't. As I said, even if they agree with and support the unions decision, striking without pay is just not an option for many people. A good collaboration looks after all its members regardless of their ability to take part in group activities.

I would be ashamed of myself if I didn't recognise that some people just can't afford to stick to their principles. If it were a choice between feeding their children/paying their bills and striking without pay I know which I would choose. And also, as a member of that union I would happily strike on their behalf if I could afford to do so and they couldn't.

You seriously cannot say that all teachers/doctors/whoever, are underpaid, taking on two jobs to make ends meet, and are already struggling financially, can be in a position to afford to lose 2 weeks pay? (I'm estimating the strike days so far as 10, don't know the exact number)

The problem is that if nothing is done now, the salary will be even worse in another 10-15 years - it's decreasing at a rate of 7% per year at the moment - compounded, it won't take long before it isn't a liveable salary, especially given the expenses involved, never-mind a salary commensurate with skills and training...

There's a bit of me that wants to take every colleague who says 'it could be worse' or 'its not so bad' and give them a shake and tell them to value themselves a bit more.

You were in the top 2% of academics to even get into medical school, and in the top 30% of those to be in your consultant post. In some specialties, you may have self funded a PhD and then beaten a competition ratio or 50 or 100:1 to get a training place. You take the responsibility for life and death decisions on a daily basis.

Unions have the unions at heart, not necessarily the members. You still have free will, fuck them. You do you.

You dont see why saying people aren't very bright is rude?

With a clear explanation as to why?

No, I don't. I think if someone can't understand the very basics of union membership, when they are in a union, then they aren't very bright. That wasn't rude to you or any other poster, just a reflection on the people who were mentioned as not understanding how their membership worked.

What a horrible word scab is. Only you can know what the details of the stike is really about and whrther you agree. In some jobs like teaching, most people are in the union in case someone makes an accusation about them or in case they are injured at work, so they have legal back up. The active union members are not representative of the whole staff and teachers have little choice but to be in a union and the unions are all left-wing group think. My short teaching career never involved a strike but my husband and others I know would not strike on principle - they think they're better off than most private sector workers and the kids need to be in school. There was never any come back from the union.

If you feel the strike is wrong don't do it. Don't be bullied. If you think they have a real point and something is really likely to change by striking then maybe go along with it and strike with your colleagues.

Enjoy being right.

😂

Well you have had the benefit of Union membership, even if you haven’t had to use it or don’t recognise that you have it. A bit like insurance really, everyone has it but hopes not to have to use it.

So, if you had been bullied by a senior member of staff, you would have gone to your union, if you had been physically attacked by a patient your Union would have helped you negotiated compensation. If you needed legal advice about your contract,or other issues your union would provide up to date and relevant advice through specialist legal channels.. Your Union has negotiated pay, hours, and levels of responsibility at all the different levels of your career, if you are a woman your Union has negotiated maternity pay, the right to time off for maternity related appointments, maternity leave, parental leave, compassionate leave. Your Union has overseen health and safety working practices in the workplace, and lone worker safety procedures outside it. Your job would look very different today if your Union had not actively negotiated on your behalf, and the only reason the Union has the influence to negotiate is because of the number of its members. It is vital that workers in all sorts of Unions make sure they join and support their Union, non union members and non unionised workplaces are low hanging fruit for employers.

A colleague of mine was falsely accused of something , the accusation coinciding with a holiday period so she was not in work, she was not a member of the Union, our employers immediately instructed senior members of staff, including the Union rep acting as an advisor, not to contact her even as friends under threat of action being taken against them, she had to find and fund her own legal advisors, who weren’t experts in the field and gave her poor out of date information. She was on her own until the charge was withdrawn two weeks later and was admitted to have been malicious. She was almost destroyed by the process and the lack of support .

So OP, you might not have asked your Union for help, but believe me, they have been there for you, and you have had the benefit of membership, you have just been lucky enough not to need specific help for a specific reason.

I was a union member my entire working life, but I'm of the belief that, if staff don't want (or can't afford) to strike, they shouldn't be called names or be made to feel bad about it. But you should also cancel your membership, OP. You can't expect the perks if union membership if not prepared for the downsides.

I feel quite differently about outside labour being hired by an employer (probably at a lower wage and poorer terms & conditions) expressly to break a strike. I couldn't bring myself to do that and I'd think less of anyone who did.

Is membership of your union compulsory OP? Mine was (long time ago) when they were both the union and the regulatory body. If that’s the case I think you don’t have any obligation to agree with or take action.

Sorry but you are.

It's part of union membership to accept collective action.

If you don't wish to do so, you leave.

I don't in any way think people shouldn't have this choice - no-one is forced to strike. Like they are not forced to be in a union. You can make the choice.

If strikes are less effective (by people "scabbing") they are more likely to be prolonged. Perhaps recognise this is what your colleagues have voted for and strike in solidarity.

🙄

most people are in the union in case someone makes an accusation about them or in case they are injured at work, so they have legal back up.

And how do you think that's possible, without the union having bargaining power?

It is because they represent members' interests they are able to be at the table in pay discussions, can support members in employment issues, and can provide legal representation.

If a vote on action - and this provides a mandate to union officials - is not heeded by members, what's the point? And where is the ability of unions to take action on behalf of said members?

Like I keep saying, be in a union or don't. Don't be in one with a view to seeing it as a support for you alone with no responsibilities in return.

My union were useless when I needed them and worse than useless when my best friend needed them after years of subscriptions. So I left and I'm really glad I did because I don't support the marking boycott in universities at all and would never have voted for it.
You may get legal fees as part of your home insurance, OP, if you ever need help.

I think it depends on your workplace / where you live. Loads of people in my office don’t strike, aren’t in the union. If you’re in the union you should strike or leave I think. No-one is called a scab for coming in on strike days in my office, but most will work from home that day to avoid picket lines

My DP is a Podiatrist (different union) so I get some inside view of the NHS from her and second-hand from others she works with.

The workers in the NHS are as dedicated people as you can find anywhere in the world and I fully appreciate things are very difficult, and that strike action is not taken remotely lightly.

It's a very difficult position for you to be in and you would have my support either way.

If you feel you should work, then do so.

I’ve never been in a union but I would consider you a nice person if you did your job especially if it helped others.

Yes, don't be in a union if you don't support them.

@WhimHoff just have to say, nice username!

The unions usual negotiate lost wages as part of any pay deal.

I'm in a massive union for personal protection for workplace bullying. The bulk of union members are for an industry that's not mine but it also covers government contractors which I am. They recently voted to strike but the issue was not in my area of work and it would not have been appropriate for me to strike within my workplace so I didn't. It was a non-issue. I don't use terminology like scab. It's rude and unhelpful.

offer to do the emergency cover so the others can strike. This strike is for your junior staff how see no incentive to come back from Australia and work for such an eroded salary as a consultant, and it will benefit patients ultimately to have an engaged well remunerated consultant workforce working in the public sector.

Unions exist to protect and help working people. Without them, you wouldn't enjoy many of the benefits we have today such as holiday pay/weekends off/various types of parental leave/reasonable working week - AND so much more.
I agree, it's not the 80s but staff still need the protection of a union and if too many people start ignoring their union's call to action then everyone will lose.

A vote was taken by OP's union - and under new government rules, at least 50% of members must vote before any strike can be called. So if a strike has been called then all union members should support it.
OP agrees with the demands/is a union member and will no doubt rely on that union in the future if he/she needs individual help at work. You'd be really surprised how many people do need individual support in the workplace.

PLEASE don't undermine the action. We're stronger together!

@Badlands1 fellow doctor here. Yes I’d say you’re a scab. We work in unsafe conditions every single day, we watch patients be out at risk due to poor pay and working conditions for staff meaning that we cannot retain safe numbers.

During strikes there are more staff than ever before. Emergency care will be maintained.

Sadly some elective work will be cancelled, I’m desperately sad for patient who this affects. But not taking action means more pain for patients in the long run, not taking action means we wait and watch the nhs collapse. This is the only way the govt will listen, if we sacrifice pay and walk out.

I’m not just striking for fair pay, I’m striking because we are haemorrhaging staff and we cannot have a health service if all of the future consultants have left.