Would I be a scab

[Badlands1]

NC
My union have voted to strike. I have voted not to - am I scab if I work? I don't disagree with the unions requests but I am not happy with the effects the strike will have.

It’s not remotely nuts.

People will always do what suits them in the long run. Not everyone has access to these so called funds to help to strike.

Some will have a moral reason to not strike in this instance. You should be able to disagree with something and still agree on other things. Collectives are what is nuts. People aren’t always going to agree on everything.

Unions are left wing bullies and often the members are too.

@Devilrocknroller
Thats true but the responsibility falls on the hospitals who are caught in the middle while the government agrees the wages

You also can’t say the union hasn’t done anything for you, you can thank your leave increases, pay rises etc for your union. Negotiating those agreements is incredibly time consuming and difficult. As is organising workplaces. Your employer doesn’t just give you a pay increase out of the goodness of their own heart. You union won that for you. Look up the wage differences in non unionised workplaces. So don’t say your union has done nothing for you. The pay increases more than pay for your union fees

@nokidshere

You're incorrect. If someone doesn't want to accept the collective decision, they'll need to leave the union. That's literally the premise of a union - a union or coming together of workers to act collectively & have strength in their numbers.

I think you could make your point without the rudeness.

Just telling people they're not very bright is using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

All unions have hardship funds that support members who are sole earners or would be vulnerable.

I find the idea that you only pay into a Union as an insurance policy unpleasant and the ‘I’ve never got anything out of it’ view is grim. Unions are collective organisations of workers that negotiate pay, push employers to meet legal and ethical obligations and provide support to members in need. I’ve paid Union subs in every job I’ve ever had since I was 16 and am now 48 and will keep paying. I’ve never had nor needed advice but I have benefited- through negotiated pay rises, improvements in working conditions and in knowing that colleagues have had fair pay settlements, the lowest paid have had much improved pay and that members of my union have had legal advice, subsidised holidays, education opportunities, been supported to keep jobs, get disability adjustments etc. My ‘benefit’ has been the collective benefits that have strengthened my community. If you think the only be fit that matters is one you personally receive then yeah, a trade union probably isn’t for you, get an insurance policy and stop accepting collectively negotiated pay rises.

It wouldn’t have to if the government agreed to responsible pay increases etc then members wouldn’t have to strike

People aren’t always going to agree on everything.

No. So that's why there's a vote. And the vote is accepted by members.

There's no other way to run a union - if you're not willing to accept the democratic vote, you have to leave. You can't make individual choices in a union.

Why should they assume a union exists for their personal benefit?

Because they pay to be a part of it. They don't sign up to it by agreeing to always do what the majority wants, they sign up to it by paying. That's why unions have some ability to support workers in difficulty - because people pay.

I think you could make your point without the rudeness.

Where was I rude?

Surely it's obvious that if you are in a union it's not there just to help you individually, without collectively acting to help all members.

How else would the union be able to negotiate pay and conditions, if they weren't able to speak on behalf of your members?

So sorry, if all the people you know don't understand that, I would still argue they aren't very bright.

Couldn't agree more.

Just telling people they're not very bright is using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

Except I didn't do that? I explained (twice) why it's incorrect 🤷🏻‍♀️

Well said @Enterthewolves

It is the sticking point for me - I believe in unions and what they stand for. I question not having joined my own union, ethically. But I don't agree with the approaches local union reps have taken, which are often dealing with their own grievances really, rather than genuinely advancing issues for the wider workforce.

@Superdupes

But not only their personal benefit!

Read the rest of my post you quoted. It is the collective action that gives unions their power (with employers). If it's the case that every union member does what they want, the premise collapses.

You dont see why saying people aren't very bright is rude?

Okay then, I'll leave you to it as this won't go anywhere but into unpleasantness and I have no wish to derail the op's thread.

Enjoy being right.

Good on you for doing your job. You don't want to forego the pay. That's fine

@eggsbenedict23 It's not the 2 days pay I am concerned about

I’m getting divorced and downsizing the house.

I’m on the bones of my arse: selling clothes on Vinted to buy petrol.

I was declined a mortgage last month because there were strike deductions on my payslip and the company said they’d lend me £18k less than I needed because of it.

I’ve had to find another mortgage offer and I won’t be striking next week.

I simply can’t risk losing this offer or the house.

Sometimes ethics isn’t black and white.

I’ve striked (struck?) for the last twenty years whenever called. I just can’t do it this time.

Side note: I spent all the strike days earlier this year working unpaid from home because when else was I going to catch up on all the stuff that needed catching up on? Fuck them all.

So do people accept one can choose not to be in a union and that this is a principled stance and not an idiotic one? Because that’s not what generally happens on here.

I think this really is when it isn’t black and white @LividHot . I know that won’t be accepted by a lot on here though.

Youre not the only one, all of my Dr friends who are part of the union are not striking either, and all going into work, one of them says she's just bored and fed up with all these strikes, like you, she is contemplating leaving.

Will you be accepting the pay rise the union might get after striking?

I also presume you would be willing to reap any benefits which could possibly arise from the outcome of said strikes, such as pay increases or better working conditions.
You should leave the union if you don't believe in what they stand for.

It isn’t only for union members, unless doctors differ vastly to teachers.

The clue is in the word. 'Union'.

We are seriously lucky this country has any left, following concerted political attacks on them by successive Tory governments. The most draconian anti-union legislation in Europe makes it extremely difficult to achieve successful ballots for strike action - requiring over a 50% turnout - so if your members do vote to strike it tells you something about the strength of feeling in your sector.

Unions rely on the basis of collective bargaining. I did vote 'no' to our latest ballot as I believed we were at an impasse, but fellow-members disagreed. THAT is democracy, and I abided by that decision.

There are certain principled reasons for striking or not striking. My organization has a number of people who are non-union members, which is fine and up to them. If you are a member, then crossing a picket line is a no-no (whether or not you're enamored with the incompetence of your General Secretary, but that is another issue).

I would not and have never call anyone a 'scab'; nor have I treated colleagues with anything less than cordiality and professionalism if their political views don't happen to chime with mine. That's called being an adult.

In no way, either, would I support your stance.