Page 3 | Would I be a scab

Badlands1 · 2023-06-28T09:00:26+00:00

NC My union have voted to strike. I have voted not to - am I scab if I work? I don't disagree with the unions requests but I am not happy with the effects the strike will have.

EarringsandLipstick · 28/06/2023 11:40

Crumbcatcher · 28/06/2023 11:29

I had absolutely no idea I'm supposed to follow the outcome of the vote! I will be leaving my union in that case, I don't agree with striking.

What did you think the purpose of having a vote was so? Of course, if you're a member you follow the outcome, that's the point of the vote!!

So yes, leave the union. I am not in mine, and I'm aware that should I have an employment issue, I won't be able to avail of union support. That's my choice.

You can't have it both ways.

Nussbaum · 28/06/2023 11:41

Yes.

EarringsandLipstick · 28/06/2023 11:41

@Puffalicious

Exactly 🤷🏻‍♀️ how do people not understand this.

Mintelderflower · 28/06/2023 11:41

LoisPrice · 28/06/2023 11:38

Being a union member doesn’t mean you have to agree with everything the union does, any more than voting for a particular political party has to mean you agree with every part of their manifesto.

it would be like the majority voting for the Green Party but the Labour Party disregarding it and putting themselves in power. If you agree to go with the majority and then back down when you don’t get your way, what does that make you? Why take part in any of it? Why vote? Why be a member?

This isn’t to say whether I agree or not but IME most people are union members and pay subs as a sort of insurance policy, to access support and representation if and when they need it.

If I started a thread on MN saying that I was a teacher and was not a member of a union then I would have lots of ‘idiot’ ‘stupid’ ‘let’s hope you’re never accused of anything’ responses. No one would say ‘well at least you are sticking by your principles.’

Puffalicious · 28/06/2023 11:42

laptop3000 · 28/06/2023 11:33

My dad works for an area which recently had heavily publicised strikes, which had a massive impact on the country. He is in the union but to strike he would lose a days pay for each day he would strike. His area have had multiple strike days and would work out at more than a weeks pay loss. My dad is only earner as my mum doesn't work due to her health, he relies on that money to keep the house running and shopping. Losing more than a weeks pay would be awful for him so he chose to work all the strike days. A lot of the other staff have fallen out with him, even ones he's known for 20 years. He has every right to still be in the union, he pays in just as the others do so it entitled to the same benefits as the others.

I agree with the strikes but find it disgusting that anyone could be so awful to someone because they choose to work.

I'm sorry to hear it's been tough for your dad. Poor treatment is not acceptable. However, they will have the opinion that he's now benefitting from the better pay and conditions that others sacrificed pay for. He should have been able to apply to his union for emergency payments (what some of the union fees are used for) on the basis that he would have been disadvantaged more than others due to being the only household earner. I've known of colleagues get this in many other unions.

Mygazpachoistoocold · 28/06/2023 11:42

Gosh reading some of the comments on this thread make me really glad that I left my union.

EarringsandLipstick · 28/06/2023 11:42

Mintelderflower · 28/06/2023 11:36

One of the problems with this is that if you work in a role like teacher or doctor or nurse and you are not a member of a union you get told you’re an idiot. But then if you either don’t agree with the actions of the Union, or agree with it but are not in a position to carry it out, you’re told to leave the union! I’m not sure if there is an answer to this.

That's true too. My DM was a teacher. Everyone is in the union (or a union - there's 2 they could join, in Ireland), for very valid reasons.

She hated striking. Would never vote for it. Had to strike anyway.

EarringsandLipstick · 28/06/2023 11:44

right now this one doesn't suit you.

God how cynical.

It's not 'the union' that doesn't suit her. It's made up of members like her, who voted to strike.

That's the deal - if you want the benefits of union membership, you need to accept the democratic process.

EarringsandLipstick · 28/06/2023 11:45

You don’t have to do anything you don’t agree with.

Then you don't join a union.

Implicit in membership is acceptance of collective action. Leave if you don't want this.

Some of these answers ...

Puffalicious · 28/06/2023 11:45

CleverLilViper · 28/06/2023 11:38

You don’t have to do anything you don’t agree with.

What if you can’t afford to strike? Not everyone can in this climate. Shocking, I know.

Glad I never gave a penny to Unions and never will if they utilise bullying tactics to get people in line.

Show quote history

If you're not in a union, fine. If you disagree with them, fine. If someone chooses to be in one they agree to the conditions. It's not hard to understand.

There are funds to help those who can't afford to strike.

Puffalicious · 28/06/2023 11:46

EarringsandLipstick · 28/06/2023 11:40

What did you think the purpose of having a vote was so? Of course, if you're a member you follow the outcome, that's the point of the vote!!

So yes, leave the union. I am not in mine, and I'm aware that should I have an employment issue, I won't be able to avail of union support. That's my choice.

You can't have it both ways.

Show quote history

👏

Nordicrain · 28/06/2023 11:48

Enterthewolves · 28/06/2023 10:17

Yes you would be. If your Union membership has voted to go out and you don’t strike you are breaking the strike and the collective decision making of your union. If you are a doctor I understand your moral concern but I’ve gone out when I disagreed (and had voted no) because being a union member means being part of a collective, for the good stuff like negotiated pay, and funded legal help but also for the less good (striking without pay).

So you don't think there is any material negative impact of the strikes that might justify a moral decision not to strike?

FloydPepper · 28/06/2023 11:48

DogandMog · 28/06/2023 11:40

Not sure how I feel about unions overall in society... BUT at least they have an internally consistent ethos, and that membership by necessity mandates collective and cohesive action by all members in order to be effective and meaningful. In a democracy you have both the option to join or to abstain from union membership, but you should adhere to the prevailing mandate of the collective if you do choose membership. Hate the word "scab", but "strike breaker" is perfectly factual.

This is a much better response that just shouting “scab” at someone. Proper discussion is great. Insults are pathetic

EarringsandLipstick · 28/06/2023 11:48

Mygazpachoistoocold · 28/06/2023 11:42

Gosh reading some of the comments on this thread make me really glad that I left my union.

Well, yes.

It's partly for this reason I also didn't join. I found the particular union in my sector to be obstructive & grievance-led. I decided it, plus potential strike action, was not for me (striking is rare in this sector generally).

But that's the point - I made that choice & am aware I can't benefit from the support offered by union membership.

The idea people believe you can be in a union but ignore the vote is nuts.

roundtable · 28/06/2023 11:50

Life is so black and white on MN sometimes.

Most people I know are in a union to protect them against any accusations or workplace injustice (the irony!) I don't think they think of it as a collective hive mind rightly or wrongly.

There's always been refusers/people who can't afford it etc.

As an aside, the postal worker I know that took part in strikes was able to make up his lost earnings in overtime. Not all professions can do that.

EarringsandLipstick · 28/06/2023 11:51

So you don't think there is any material negative impact of the strikes that might justify a moral decision not to strike?

It doesn't work like that. I personally object to strikes (in my sector - not others). I don't want to strike regardless of issue. So I'm not in a union.

You can't choose to a adopt a 'moral approach' about striking and still join a union.

jc12689 · 28/06/2023 11:52

ifthe · 28/06/2023 11:05

No, we live in a democracy. You do you.

Yes. The democracy part of it is choosing to be part of a union or not. If you're part of the inion then follow the democratic decision of the collective.

Devilrocknroller · 28/06/2023 11:52

Providing conditions and wages that support workers to enable them to do their job is the responsibility of the employer. Therefore the responsibility of the care for the patients whilst the strike is happening is the responsibility of the employer

Original poster

Badlands1 · 28/06/2023 11:52

I'm not planning to stay in the union and ignore the decision.
I'll either work within the terms ( skeleton service/derogation if there is any) or leave the union.
I will give it a bit or time to see what pans out
The pressure from both sides is huge

OP posts:

Mintelderflower · 28/06/2023 11:52

There are funds to help those who can't afford to strike

It isn’t that straightforward.

For many people, they are tied into things such as phone contracts, gym memberships, car finance and so on. Accessing a ‘hardship fund’ for a gym membership would probably sit uncomfortably with many people but it still has to be paid for. Likewise I think there is a cap on it, and not everyone who applies for it will get it.

Then you have people who are in the qualifying weeks before maternity leave, people who are due to retire and so on.

nokidshere · 28/06/2023 11:52

No one needs to strike if they don't want to, regardless if you belong to the union. You can belong to a 'collective' with agreeing with everything it does. It's ok for the rich union bosses to encourage people to strike but frankly, right now when we are being stretched to the hilt, people cant afford to keep losing pay even if they do agree with the strikes.

No one should be berated for doing what is best for them let alone be called such revolting terms a 'scab'. And you can still support your colleagues and the reasons they are striking even if you aren't taking part yourself.

Nowvoyager99 · 28/06/2023 11:52

RattyHealy · 28/06/2023 10:19

Yes you would be a scab. If you will break strikes you should resign from the union and not benefit from the other aspects of union membership.

Totally agree with this.

If you cross a picket line, your colleagues will remember.

EarringsandLipstick · 28/06/2023 11:53

Most people I know are in a union to protect them against any accusations or workplace injustice (the irony!) I don't think they think of it as a collective hive mind rightly or wrongly.

Well, sorry but 'most' people you know aren't that bright then!

Why should they assume a union exists for their personal benefit, while be unwilling to give the union the power it has through collective action? That's why unions have some ability to support workers in difficulty. Because they speak collectively.

ilovesooty · 28/06/2023 11:53

ChaToilLeam · 28/06/2023 11:16

If you don’t support the union, then you should leave.

I presume you would wish for Union support if treated badly or unfairly? So much for solidarity…!

Exactly.

Superdupes · 28/06/2023 11:53

'you do not have to take part in a strike and cannot be disciplined by your union if you refuse'

Unions are there for a 100 other things apart from striking, you pay to be a part of it and are perfectly entitled to not participate in any strike action if you choose not to. The idea that you're 'a scab' because you're concerned about the impact on patients if you don't work that day is just grim.

I think Unions as a whole need a good look at and the whole thing updating. They say they're all about this that or the other but when it boils down to it all they ever seem to be really worried about is more pay. More pay is not the answer to the doctor or teaching crisis - but all we ever seem to hear is they're striking for more pay.