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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

To call this an assault?

374 replies

trustyrustie · 27/06/2023 21:21

I was shopping in one of those supermarkets, that isn’t actually a supermarket but sells all the stuff that you know that you don’t know you need until you walk in today. When I finished, I approached the till area. There were a few tills with one woman on one till. the other tills were empty. I joined the queue for the till and there were three or four people ahead of me.

I had a trolley with two items in it, and I was holding the trolley with both hands. At some point the cashier left her position at the till to walk towards the customer services desk and look at two ladies working there. I didn’t realise she had done this until she yelled over aggressively to them “I’m sending some customers down to you because I’ve got plenty of them here” or words to that effect.

Without me expecting it she then aggressively physically pushed my trolley while I still had hold of it with both hands so that it spun 45° to the right in the direction of the customer services desk. My arms were pulled and my body was spun around as it went. She then turned around and went back to her till.

I think this was an assault.

I was shocked and upset… A few people that I know agree with me, and a few don’t

AIBU?

OP posts:
TalkingSchist · 27/06/2023 22:24

This reply has been deleted

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ZebraDilemma · 27/06/2023 22:24

trustyrustie · 27/06/2023 21:28

I am interested to know why you think it wasn’t an assault?

I am interested to know why you think it was?

TalkingSchist · 27/06/2023 22:25

heartsinvisiblefury · 27/06/2023 22:24

I'm still not over the OTT description of where you were rather than just naming the place 😀

This is what initially made me start reading. The dramatics made me continue.

PiffleIsTakingThePiss · 27/06/2023 22:26

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TalkingSchist · 27/06/2023 22:28

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Changeling78 · 27/06/2023 22:28
Donald Duck Money GIF

If there’s blame, there’s a claim 😂

Zarataralara · 27/06/2023 22:28

I think it’d be very difficult to prove assault but she was obviously in a mood and aggressive. Report asap to management as they might have cctv.

Original poster
trustyrustie · 27/06/2023 22:28

@ABugWife sorry I actually mean 90 degrees I wrote the wrong figure

OP posts:
Whapples · 27/06/2023 22:29

I think it’s certainly very out of order and could amount to assault. I have a disability that means if that was done to me, I could be seriously injured and potentially need hospital treatment/time off work. She has no idea what your health is like so she’s risking being sued or spoken to by the police.

PrincessofWellies · 27/06/2023 22:29

WTFAreYouForReal · 27/06/2023 22:02

Because she didn't touch you Confused

Show quote history

There doesn't have to be contact for there to be an assault. It is the apprehension of violence that is the point. Assault is distinct from assault and battery. Battery is when there is contact. So this could constitute assault.

This is what the dpp say.

Assault, as distinct from battery, can be committed by an act indicating an intention to use unlawful violence against the person of another – for example, an aimed punch that fails to connect. In Misalati [2017] EWCA 2226 the appellant spat towards the complainant. The appeal court confirmed that although there was no actual violence, spitting is an assault whether it makes contact with the victim or causes fear of immediate unlawful physical contact.

Original poster
trustyrustie · 27/06/2023 22:29

@NeverThatSerious i actually meant 90 degrees not 45

OP posts:
PonyPatter44 · 27/06/2023 22:30

Was the till person called Aiden by any chance?

MasterBeth · 27/06/2023 22:30

trustyrustie · 27/06/2023 21:42

@BakedTattie no, I didn’t say anything to her because I was no longer facing in her direction, and when I turned around, she was well on her way back to her till. I also wouldn’t engage in an argument with somebody in that situation just because their behaviour was poor.

Neither would I, but I would if someone had actually assaulted me.

MasterBeth · 27/06/2023 22:32

PrincessofWellies · 27/06/2023 22:29

There doesn't have to be contact for there to be an assault. It is the apprehension of violence that is the point. Assault is distinct from assault and battery. Battery is when there is contact. So this could constitute assault.

This is what the dpp say.

Assault, as distinct from battery, can be committed by an act indicating an intention to use unlawful violence against the person of another – for example, an aimed punch that fails to connect. In Misalati [2017] EWCA 2226 the appellant spat towards the complainant. The appeal court confirmed that although there was no actual violence, spitting is an assault whether it makes contact with the victim or causes fear of immediate unlawful physical contact.

Show quote history

Except the cashier didn't use unlawful violence. She moved a shopping trolley around.

HalliwellManor · 27/06/2023 22:32

This thread is the gift that keeps on giving.
As you were ladies,as you were...

Jubaju · 27/06/2023 22:32

Is the trolley ok? Sounds traumatic for all involved 😐

FurryFrigginFrump · 27/06/2023 22:33

Was it Aldi? They’re like Rottweilers at my local branch.

TimesRwo · 27/06/2023 22:34

How firmly were you holding that trolley for you to spin with it…?!

Howdoesitworkagain · 27/06/2023 22:34

90 degrees instead of 45 degrees doesn’t really change anything though. It’s strange behaviour, and she shouldn’t have done it, but I think that’s the extent of it.

What is it that’s making you think you were assaulted? Did you actually suffer any harm other than being a bit taken aback at the unusual behaviour?

Lostoldusername · 27/06/2023 22:35

No, I wouldn't say it was assault....she was a bit of a twat and probably reacted in an inappropriate manner but that's where it ends.

Also totally missing the point, but why did you have a trolley with only 2 items? Maybe a basket would have saved to 90 degree spin and disorientation?

Toenailz · 27/06/2023 22:36

I think people are being a bit unkind here. OP is obviously bothered enough after the aggressive interaction to post this, hours later, so I think we could treat OP with a little bit of consideration.

Was it assault? No, not close IMO. However, it doesn't mean her behaviour was right. We do need a bit more info OP. You don't have to disclose of course, but are you elderly, or disabled, and such an act was likely to cause you to become unsteady on your feet? What detriment did you suffer other than being disorientated? Did the jolt of the trolley cause you pain, has the pain lasted afterward? Do you have social anxiety? I can see how, if having the latter, this would make a timid person quite anxious and probably set them back some.

It's not clear (to me, anyway) what the purpose of her moving your trolley was? Was it in her way, when she was clearly overwhelmed with customers and trying to serve them, and move some to another till, and you refused to move, or worse, just ignored her? Or, was she trying to direct you to another till, and was a bit heavy handed, or were you refusing to move to the other till?

I can't see a reason for her to be aggressive with the trolley if it wasn't the above, so perhaps she didn't mean to move it quite so roughly, have you considered that could really be the case?

Howdoesitworkagain · 27/06/2023 22:37

PrincessofWellies · 27/06/2023 22:29

There doesn't have to be contact for there to be an assault. It is the apprehension of violence that is the point. Assault is distinct from assault and battery. Battery is when there is contact. So this could constitute assault.

This is what the dpp say.

Assault, as distinct from battery, can be committed by an act indicating an intention to use unlawful violence against the person of another – for example, an aimed punch that fails to connect. In Misalati [2017] EWCA 2226 the appellant spat towards the complainant. The appeal court confirmed that although there was no actual violence, spitting is an assault whether it makes contact with the victim or causes fear of immediate unlawful physical contact.

Show quote history

Sorry, @PrincessofWellies , you’re comparing spitting at someone with moving their trolley? Is that the basis of your legal argument? Not sure about that 😂

namitynamechange · 27/06/2023 22:37

trustyrustie · 27/06/2023 21:32

Yes, somebody else said to me, it can’t be assault because she didn’t physically put her hands on you which made me think if she’d hit me with a stick would that be any different? Because she hadn’t actually put her hands on me. I was holding a trolley which she spun extremely quickly, and I had no time to react or loosen my grip

If she had deliberately hit you with a stick then yes. if she had been carrying a stick and turned round and it knocked you then no. She pushed the trolley not you. She did not intend to hurt you in doing so - but because you were holding on to it and had no time to react you were hurt. So she maybe acted thoughtlessly, was clumsy, showed little consideration/awareness of you. But it wasn't assault.

HisNibs · 27/06/2023 22:38

But this violent trolley shove caught Op completely by surprise so there was no fear of immediate contact. I doubt there was any intention by the shop worker to cause harm either so there is no chance of proving assault.
Rude... yes. Uncalled for... definitely. Assault... nope

MardyBra · 27/06/2023 22:39

I want to understand what a shop “that isn’t actually a supermarket but sells all the stuff that you know that you don’t know you need until you walk in” actually is.
And why the OP is so coy about it.