To call this an assault?

[trustyrustie]

I was shopping in one of those supermarkets, that isn’t actually a supermarket but sells all the stuff that you know that you don’t know you need until you walk in today. When I finished, I approached the till area. There were a few tills with one woman on one till. the other tills were empty. I joined the queue for the till and there were three or four people ahead of me.

I had a trolley with two items in it, and I was holding the trolley with both hands. At some point the cashier left her position at the till to walk towards the customer services desk and look at two ladies working there. I didn’t realise she had done this until she yelled over aggressively to them “I’m sending some customers down to you because I’ve got plenty of them here” or words to that effect.

Without me expecting it she then aggressively physically pushed my trolley while I still had hold of it with both hands so that it spun 45° to the right in the direction of the customer services desk. My arms were pulled and my body was spun around as it went. She then turned around and went back to her till.

I think this was an assault.

I was shocked and upset… A few people that I know agree with me, and a few don’t

AIBU?

It started off as 45 degrees, don’t forget it took some time to double to 90 degrees.

Google eggshell skull rule...

She corrected herself, I'm giving OP benefit of the doubt.

My sister has a condition that means she can regularly suffer dislocations, this could have been quite different if it was someone like my sister holding the trolley.

@Worrieddmum

Op said she was disoriented by it, no mention of physical injuries.

But it wasn't your sister holding the trolley was it? Just because another person might have been injured if it happened to them, doesn't mean it was assault against op.

But I don't think bodily harm is required is it, for assault? Wouldn't that make it ABH

She corrected herself after several posts and someone questioning her is something could spin 45 degrees, I’m inclined to believe that OP is exaggerating and changing her narrative.

it wasn’t your sister, so alls good.

Other people who also claim they are legally trained and experienced disagree. On this thread.

Your case is different is what you are saying. Not really similar.

Op stated it spun her 45 degrees, then jerked her and continued to describe it in a way that made it more dramatic. You claimed that the woman was ‘jerking’ her which implies it’s was prolonged. You are increasing the severity of it. There are different ways of describing things. Some ways are more dramatic than others.

With all your experience do you really believe the Police would act? Really?

Your posts feels a bit ‘where’s there blame’ especially working on the presumption that Op might discover injuries later.

if you push a trolley violently it moves more than 45 or 90 degrees.

Excellent post.

So we should never push a door open in case someone frail is behind it? Life is going to get hard!

If you knew someone was behind that door and decided to open it into them, would be a closer situation surely. You're not suggesting the staff member didn't know the customer was there?

Didn't say it was my sister, or that it's what I based my comments on.

I'm simply stating that the act itself may impact others differently.

All you people using trolleys to keep yourselves upright should really be getting yourself the proper equipment for the purpose because you're all asking for worse injuries than you already have. Trolleys are NOT designed to be used as walkers, supports etc and are likely to topple over even without them being nudged by another person.

The quote I responded to was If I pushed a door open, accidentally causing it to hit someone I didn't realise was on the other side, would that be considered assault and an act of violence? and the answer was 'google the eggshell rule' implying even if act was unintentional you'd still be guilty of an assault I inferred.

@Worrieddmum

But people can't be prosecuted on a worst case scenario basis if someone involved was an entirely different person, so your sister is irrelevant.

In the normal Mumsnet world of taking great offence at even being spoken to by a supermarket worker it strikes me as highly unlikely that most people would just take this lying down.

I don't think the police would do anything, I've been full scale attacked and they were unwilling to arrest, but that does not mean I wasn't assaulted

Theres also the issue of what you could reasonably know and how you go about opening it.

Clear door you can see through - you don't look for whatever reason.
Door is entrance and exit - you reasonably know someone may be coming through it the other way
You open it by slamming it open super hard without looking, and as a result you injure someone approaching or actually opening it from the other side...

Then yes, you carry some responsibility for that (whether it is assault is a different matter).

Solid door you can't see through
Door is entrance only, you are entering, you do not reasonably expect someone to be coming through the other way
You open it in a normal fashion with just the force sufficient to open teh door, and as a result injure someone....

Then no, probably not, thats truly an accident and/or the person trying to exit through the wrong door is responsible for their own injury here.

Grabbing a trolley when you can see someone is holding it, do not know if they are simply resting hands on it (as many would) or are leaning a large proportion of their weight on it (again, as many would), and you do not know if they have any health issues or disabilities... and then shoving it round to the side...

That isn't an accident, that is a choice and you're leaving it down to luck as to whether that causes someone injury or not.

It is also really not comparable to the door scenario is it!

No I'm saying my case is similar. Again, seems like a desire to perpetually misinterpret. Instances don't need to be identical to be dealt with in similar ways, it's how case law is utilised.

And that's fine that others claiming to be legally trained believe differently; I make my living from negotiating and asserting a different position so that's not surprising.

I'm saying that those categorically stating this isn't assault are incorrect, not least by the very definitions in the statutes.

In terms of the police and what the procurator fiscal/ crown prosecutor will take forward, is subjective (unfair and worthy of another thread entirely), but in my experience, particularly at a police level, not always based on facts alone.

You may say my post feels "where's the blame" but it's just a fact that aches/ pains/ strains don't always show up immediately.

Amen

Sure sure, they can all apply to the Mobility Fairy for walkers, wheelchairs etc for people either temporarily in need of something to lean on, or who have really not yet realised or accepted they need such an aid?

These things cost a significant amount of money or a lengthy wait for the NHS to supply, and purchasing cheap or second hand stuff for yourself can result in longer term more significant damage as those items will not 'fit' or be the correct size/shape for the person purchasing them.

Maybe it would be more reasonable to simply... not shove trolleys around?

You clearly need to get a few more cases 😂!

What if a child bumps into the trolley? Or another shopper? If you need equipment it's provided by the NHS, may be a wait, granted but safer than injuring yourself in a shop no? Most supermarkets provide wheelchairs etc, better to be safe than sorry

She spun you right 'round, baby, right 'round
Like a record, baby, right 'round, 'round, 'round
She spun you right 'round, baby, right 'round
Let go of the trolley, baby, right 'round, 'round, 'round

Right, deep breath. Firstly, are you ok? I hope so.

Witty... 🙄 @Brightbear