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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To call this an assault?

374 replies

trustyrustie · 27/06/2023 21:21

I was shopping in one of those supermarkets, that isn’t actually a supermarket but sells all the stuff that you know that you don’t know you need until you walk in today. When I finished, I approached the till area. There were a few tills with one woman on one till. the other tills were empty. I joined the queue for the till and there were three or four people ahead of me.

I had a trolley with two items in it, and I was holding the trolley with both hands. At some point the cashier left her position at the till to walk towards the customer services desk and look at two ladies working there. I didn’t realise she had done this until she yelled over aggressively to them “I’m sending some customers down to you because I’ve got plenty of them here” or words to that effect.

Without me expecting it she then aggressively physically pushed my trolley while I still had hold of it with both hands so that it spun 45° to the right in the direction of the customer services desk. My arms were pulled and my body was spun around as it went. She then turned around and went back to her till.

I think this was an assault.

I was shocked and upset… A few people that I know agree with me, and a few don’t

AIBU?

OP posts:
Irridescantshimmmer · 28/06/2023 16:41

It sounds like the cashier, in an act of agression, yanked your trolley in the direction of the other tills, because she was 'disgruntled' at the other cashiers because she probably felt she was doing all the work and they were doing nothing.

From you are saying, you wete on the recieving end of this ridiculous behaviour and I would be concerned about her behaviour.

An elderly person with poor balance and unsteady on their feet could be knocked off their feet and fracture a hip. This would be assault. If something like that got into the media, it would damage the supermarkets' reputation.

I suggest you complain to the HQ of this supermarket, describe in detail the appearance of the cashier as well as her actions and they will come down on her like a tonne of bricks.

The cashiers' conduct was atrocious, all she had to do was ask you to go to the other till.

Brightbear · 28/06/2023 16:44

Worrieddmum · 28/06/2023 16:40

Witty... 🙄 @Brightbear

I thought that may get you in a spin! OP hasn’t been back today, maybe she’s giving a statement or maybe she’s getting her protector out to measure if the angle was 45 or 90 degrees or somewhere in between.

it’s very admirable of you to waste commit so much time on this post, perhaps OP will DM you and appoint you.

Brightbear · 28/06/2023 16:45

Brightbear · 28/06/2023 16:44

I thought that may get you in a spin! OP hasn’t been back today, maybe she’s giving a statement or maybe she’s getting her protector out to measure if the angle was 45 or 90 degrees or somewhere in between.

it’s very admirable of you to waste commit so much time on this post, perhaps OP will DM you and appoint you.

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*Protractor

yellowsmileyface · 28/06/2023 17:01

Then yes, you carry some responsibility for that (whether it is assault is a different matter).

@WiddlinDiddlin That's the whole point that's being argued though. Carrying some responsibility doesn't equal assault. I agree my door example wasn't perfectly comparable to what happened to OP, but rather it was to illustrate my point that intent is significant when discerning if an assault has taken place.

Obviously the shop assistant was responsible for what happened, but she didn't assault anyone.

Nooneknowswhatgoesonbehindcloseddoors · 28/06/2023 17:56

MichelleScarn · 28/06/2023 16:17

So we should never push a door open in case someone frail is behind it? Life is going to get hard!

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An employee should never agrab a customer’s trolley in anger and jerk it either away or into her.

GoodChat · 28/06/2023 18:16

@HalliwellManor I dont think I have ever been to a Home Bargains or B&M with a customer service desk which is the only reason I deduced The Range Grin

Brightbear · 28/06/2023 18:47

GoodChat · 28/06/2023 18:16

@HalliwellManor I dont think I have ever been to a Home Bargains or B&M with a customer service desk which is the only reason I deduced The Range Grin

Has no one mentioned

Wilkos or
Dunelm?

just a thought?

HalliwellManor · 28/06/2023 18:49

GoodChat · 28/06/2023 18:16

@HalliwellManor I dont think I have ever been to a Home Bargains or B&M with a customer service desk which is the only reason I deduced The Range Grin

Agh yes,I never thought of that!,let's go with The Range then 😄

sewerrat · 28/06/2023 22:18

Ghosttofu99 · 27/06/2023 23:59

Strange day on Mumsnet again! I’ve worked a lot of s**t customer services job’s over the years, enough to know the customer is almost never right and that it can be sole destroying, but I would never pull something out of a customer’s hand and expect to not at least get disciplined.

Even if op was away with the fairies, we are all entitled to stop and think in life without this crazy sort of behaviour. This modern notion that everything has to happen as fast as possible isn’t practical for everyone. What is op was in her 80s or had a hidden disability?

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im not the woman who did it dont ask me

sewerrat · 28/06/2023 22:19

BlackeyedSusan · 28/06/2023 00:44

If she'd done it to me I'd have fallen over.

If she'd done that to DD she'd have fallen over and subluxated a shoulder.

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well lucky it wasn't to you, nor your child

Gensola · 28/06/2023 22:22

Almost certainly is assault -even just swearing at someone or shaking your fist at them is technically assault if the victim feels they will be harmed by it.

Avondale89 · 28/06/2023 22:28

Worrieddmum · 28/06/2023 15:32

Yes I am a solicitor practising for 14+ years.

The OP hasn't said she was uninjured, later posters said that. She references that her body was spun 90 degrees, the shock this caused her and she also made reference to her arms having been jerked (2130 last night since another poster claimed I'd made that language up)

You don't need to intend to hurt someone for there to be a crime. A blatant disregard for another's safety is sufficient for culpability, on a more extreme example of this it's why there's a difference between murder and culpable homicide for example because the mens rea is different.

Whether a common assault charge or breach of the peace would be appropriate would depend on further details but yes on the bones of what has been said there is grounds for a charge to be raised with police.

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Fuck me. As if the Police haven’t got enough to do without dealing with a unharmed woman who had her trolley shoved 90 degrees in a shop.

Is this you fishing to be instructed? Suppose it’s easier than chasing ambulances.

WiddlinDiddlin · 28/06/2023 22:37

yellowsmileyface · 28/06/2023 17:01

Then yes, you carry some responsibility for that (whether it is assault is a different matter).

@WiddlinDiddlin That's the whole point that's being argued though. Carrying some responsibility doesn't equal assault. I agree my door example wasn't perfectly comparable to what happened to OP, but rather it was to illustrate my point that intent is significant when discerning if an assault has taken place.

Obviously the shop assistant was responsible for what happened, but she didn't assault anyone.

Yes I don't necessarily agree it is assault - I do agree that it should not have happened and that its not acceptable, could have hurt someone, potentially quite badly and I would definitely have spoken to someone at the store about it.

Here, the shop assistant could reasonably assume someone was holding the trolley, they could see that if they'd looked. It's also (I mean even going by the responses on this thread) not unreasonable to assume some might be leaning their weight on the trolley, and that the shop assistants actions could pose a risk...

So I do think its a problem that should be addressed. I just don't think that it should be addressed by going to the police.

I do think a lot of MN's have behaved atrociously on this thread though, is it playtime at primary school, has everyone lost all sense of empathy or is it just a free for all to be as nasty as possible?

Bubblesoffun · 28/06/2023 22:41

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Worrieddmum · 28/06/2023 23:13

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Worrieddmum · 28/06/2023 23:15

Avondale89 · 28/06/2023 22:28

Fuck me. As if the Police haven’t got enough to do without dealing with a unharmed woman who had her trolley shoved 90 degrees in a shop.

Is this you fishing to be instructed? Suppose it’s easier than chasing ambulances.

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🤣🤣🤣
🫡🫡🫡
Thanks but I'm all good without fishing for clients on Mumsnet!

Brightbear · 28/06/2023 23:28

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Brightbear · 28/06/2023 23:29

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MNHQ
CarolineMumsnet · 29/06/2023 11:13

Hopping on to post a reminder that we don't allow troll hunting. Any concerns, report them to us. Ta.

AllyCart · 29/06/2023 11:20

I don't think the police would do anything

I think they would!

They'd laugh their fucking heads off. That's what they'd do. 😂

123becauseicouldntthinkofone · 29/06/2023 12:45

Jifmicroliquid · 27/06/2023 21:35

Is anyone else having visions of the OP and her trolley spinning round like some sort of Tasmanian Devil??

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i didnt go to that extent but i have now ha ha ha ha ha, a bit dramatic of OP

LlamaFace19 · 29/06/2023 12:47

She was very rude, but she did not assault you.

TheLadyofShalott1 · 30/06/2023 04:05

ProfessorXtra · 28/06/2023 16:07

Other people who also claim they are legally trained and experienced disagree. On this thread.

Your case is different is what you are saying. Not really similar.

Op stated it spun her 45 degrees, then jerked her and continued to describe it in a way that made it more dramatic. You claimed that the woman was ‘jerking’ her which implies it’s was prolonged. You are increasing the severity of it. There are different ways of describing things. Some ways are more dramatic than others.

With all your experience do you really believe the Police would act? Really?

Your posts feels a bit ‘where’s there blame’ especially working on the presumption that Op might discover injuries later.

if you push a trolley violently it moves more than 45 or 90 degrees.

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@ProfessorXtra Re your last sentence:
If you push an empty trolly in a wide open space violently it will almost certainly move more than 90 degrees if the push happened to have a spin on it, and if it's wheels acted like normal castor wheels - not the usual shopping trolly wheels, that must have been amongst the 1st AI inventions, because those darn things definitely have a (screwed up and evil) mind of their own ~ I am pretty sure that they are plotting the downfall of mankind, so those early scaremongering films weren't so far out after all -

However, the trolly in question had a person of unknown health and age, holding on to it quite tightly, it may also have been in quite a confined space as BM, The Range, Dunelm, etc are not known for being in massive buildings with lots of free space around them, therefore, with the combination of the OP's resistance, and the possible passive intervention of some shelves or something (I have my fingers crossed that it would have been a passive intervention if it happened) I think that it is highly possible that the trolly did not rotate in more than a 90° angle.

Nooneknowswhatgoesonbehindcloseddoors · 02/07/2023 07:14

Gensola · 28/06/2023 22:22

Almost certainly is assault -even just swearing at someone or shaking your fist at them is technically assault if the victim feels they will be harmed by it.

Yes. I worked for an institution where swearing at someone would result in instant dismissal.

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