To think that given many of the threads on MN at the moment we women need to give ourselves a good shake and take a long hard look at our attitudes to our roles as mothers and wives???

[SmileysPeeple]

I've just been on threads with women sniping at each other about whose 'right' or the 'best' mother re SAHM and WOHM (on childminder thread) and thread with crap husband who won't get up and help ill wife, thread about 'oh indulgent me staying in bed till 9am'.

WTF is going on??

I would neber have labelled myself a feminist but I'm now thinking of becoming one.

Don't we want women (and therefire motheres) to have choices availbale and to exercise those choices?

Then WHY do we find it so hard to acceopt that we will ineveitably make differmnt choices from each other?

Can we not accept that mothers can be/have the right to be as indulgent and selfish sometimes as any man/father/single women?

can we not see that by moaning but doing nothing about our roles as put upon wives makes us complit in setting up that very expectation??

maybe just a bad morning for me on MN, but has made up want to SCREAM!!

YABU

ithink you are absolutly right

whatever happened to 'sisterhood'eh?

oh and do please label yourself a faminist. there is nothing wrong with that label.

I agree wholeheartedly Smiley

women can be their own worst enemies sometimes - it's very shortsighted of us to rob ourselves of the choices others fought and suffered for. We should all bear in mind that when we snipe and bitch at other women for making different choices, we are undermining the very essence of feminism.

YABU. I like the sniping!

p.s. Some Mn-ers aren't wives! Me and dp didn't bother getting married.

i totally agree with you. i am fairly new to MN but i was shocked at the speed at which scorn is poured on peoples honest opinion's. i was expecting a lot more support!
formula, breast, stay at home, go to work, sterilise don't sterilise......does it really fucking matter what mothers choose as long as the children are safe and happy?

You're right.

There are enough reported 'studies' into parenting and newspaper articles attempting to foist guilt onto mums in particular, plus we do a good enough job beating ourselves up, who needs anymore censure?!

Apolgies Puppymonkey. Of couse we are not all wvies (failed with my feminist credentials at the first post I fear)

(she's not very Smiley this morning)..lol...but I agree to a point...and some days it can get so annoying I have an MN sabatical..lol..but these women sometimes want to vent, get advice,sympathy or support and thats what MN is for right?...although you wouldn't believe it reading some posts..lol

No offence taken Smiley!

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I agree with OP, but after having pulled DH out of work yesterday because both me and DS2 had this sickness bug that's going around, staying in bed till 9 o'clock this morning, and doing absolutely nothing except eat breakfast this morning so far, not sure I have the 'right' to be on here at all.

And no, I don't feel guilty about any of it

You are proably right Pruners, but i think that maybe (haven't thought it through extensively) that women are more susceptible to this culture of perfection and it becomes particuarly damaging when applied to the role of mothering. This is then in a way, an additional and totally unacheivable type of perfection we try to achiev, on top of the looking great, having a tateful tidy house, being well read, having a successful career.

and then on top of that, we use it as a stick to beat EACH OTHER with!!

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I know that my Dh is nearly entirely free of the desire to acheive perfection as his responses to my neurotic questioning ranging from what food to provide at parties, what colour to paint the bathroom, how we should bring up the kids, what me/him/kids should wear are met with responses such as:

'does it matter?'
Will anyone notice?
It'll be fine.

I think for the majority of men the main area where the pressure and judgement from other men comes from is with ergard to work and money.

We have that and the rest.

I don't think you are unreasonable. There have been quite a few threads where peoples choices have been 'd at (or worse). Generally I try to read and ignore. There of course have been a few which have irritated me beyond all belief (nay incensed) where SAHM have effectively been labelled as morons or others where WOHM have been labelled selfish. The bf/ff battle is always rife and tbh I can't even open a thread in the topic now as I burst into floods of tears within minutes .
I think certain people need to hone their live and let live attitudes somewhat, but sadly I fear that will never happen.
I always try to offer practical advice where I can and hope that I don't get flamed in the process. There has been one occasion where I was absolutely horrified by the response I got. I very nearly left MN after that one, but my rhino thick skin shielded me (I did slink off thread v upset and have since name changed).
I think there are enough of us good 'uns though to keep the sisterhood spirit on MN alive.

there have been a few threads that are so unutterably judgemental about other parents' choices, that the OP, IMO , has deserved a slating......

but there are a proportion of threads where a row blows up, seemingly out of nowhere.

for many women, myself included, the reality of marriage, motherhood, working, keeping house etc was very different to the world we thought it would be.. i read the female eunuch when i was in my early teens, and would never have imagined myself married young with children.

i am comfortable with the choices i have made, and hence would not start a thread critiquing others choices or childrearing ....

i think a lot of those threads are projections of unhappiness and frustration onto others..

too much berating of others' choices takes the spotlight off your own.

if that makes any sense !!

It's very simple you know.

I think breastfeeding is best. I did it and it worked well for me.

response?

You are HORRIBLE. How can you judge. I couldn't breastfeed and the last thing I need is to be made to feel bad.
or
I bottle fed. It worked out well for us. dh got to bond with the baby.

Response>

You are HORRIBLE. Don't you know your baby needs....
...
I am right therefore you must be wrong. If you do not share my view you are saying I am wrong. You are criticising me. How dare you judge me.

you are right hecate
... that sort of response shows such a lack of empathy and respect for others' feelings. there are ways to agree to disagree without slating someone as a bad parent

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Yes, but there are plenty of threads on MN where you can post for support and will get loads of it. I tend to view MN as being half discussion-threads which can sometimes get a bit heated and the other half are support-threads where IMO you can get bucket loads of support even if you have done quite hideous things.

OP:"I hit my child over the head with a spade I was so tired"
RESPONSE: "aaahhhh hun, we are all tired sometimes"

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I always find it strange how people will say 'oh, but the poster asked for other opinions, so they deserve whatever they get'. When my friends and family ask me for my opinion in real life, I always try to be tactful as well as honest. I would never just let rip and tell them how they're stupid, thoughtless etc. I never see why it needs to be different on the internet. But, then, a lot of people I know would disagree with me so sometimes I think I just need to harden up. As it is, I try to stay away from contentious issues (easier said than done though...).

Am reading v good book about this stuff at the mo - called Pefect Madness - title says it all really. However mothers do things they'll always be doing it wrong in somebody's eyes.

there are some very judgemental people on MN who don't listen to what the op has to say sometimes. They jump in and start bitching and then say that they were "giving advice." They were actually being hurtful and nasty.

YANBU