All the doctors I know are leaving. Are we going to be screwed for healthcare in 5 years time ?

[Gigihadr]

Our NHS now has some of the worst health outcomes out of 19 wealthy nations compared in an international study.
But in 2010 the NHS regularly ranked 1st or 2nd in most international studies.

The UK is under-doctored, we have a 3rd fewer doctors per 1000 people than Germany or Spain

Our government response to the doctors we have left has been to erode working conditions and pay, ensure they have record levels of inflation and rocketing student debt

They are moving to better paid, better resourced systems/employers (they are a competitive international commodity) and I can’t blame them for that.

AIBU to think we are utterly screwed? why are we just sitting back and watching this slow motion car crash ?

I moved entirely into private healthcare. It is not expensive at all. How many times a year you will need a blood test for example? - I had one once only when gave birth and when this thing about being 40 they promote came about.

If you brake a bone, you go to the A and E anyway. If you have a cancer you go to the local hospital also, even self reffered. What are you scared from ?

can I ask if your private healthcare will cover chronic conditions which develop? Because I recently looked at private healthcare and all the clauses seemed to be for referral, investigation, short term support for a limited time only?

@Darhon I think the ACPs will be fantastic, but at the moment they are often taking away the limited teaching opportunities from the doctors. I can understand consultants wanting to train up the permanent member of staff who won't leave in 4 months, but some juniors are being pushed aside and given less learning chances. Again, comes down to more staff.
And pay. It is a bit demoralising knowing the PA, who doesn't do nights, weekends or shifts, works 35 hours to your 40+ but earns £11,000 more than you. And yet you are still asked to sign off their prescriptions. Not PAs fault but needs some kind of joined up thinking. I'm not holding my breathe for that 😂

From the Guardian, on the NHS’s 75th birthday.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2023/jul/02/ben-jennings-on-the-state-of-the-nhs-on-its-75th-anniversary-cartoon

Sorry but that’s the ceiling for PAs. Junior doctors will be earning beyond that relatively quickly. You could pick an experienced nurse and say ‘it’s not fair’ that they earn more than a junior doctor. PAs will have had 5 years at uni too as they need a degree before they do the course.

NHS whistleblowers need more protection, expert warns https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-66051884

This is a big issue in many hospitals and doesn’t exactly help with retention of staff. I know my own Dh has been recently told to “shut up” by very senior management in the Trust, when he tried to raise concerns. It was made crystal clear there would be consequences if he carried on.

@Darhon I think they can earn a lot more than £40,000 (see attached). That's their starting salary.
Why don't they have to do shifts and nights and only do 35 hours for that pay ? I think they are paid correctly. But why are doctors not on the same wage after their 5 year degree ?? And why do Drs do 40-72hours a week, nights, sign off the prescriptions and scans for the PAs but get paid so much less for years and years. And lose training opportunities because the PAs get priority ?
Yes to more PAs but not at the expense of doctor training - unless the idea is to have no consultants in 15 years.

Totally agree with @mumsneedwine. Where is the incentive to become a doctor in the current scenario? If they want to attract the brightest, and they should as the stakes are pretty damn high, then they need to treat them properly. The PA role is fine but there needs to be a very clear definition of it to avoid the scope creep that plays into political agendas but more importantly is hugely dangerous to patients.

we are losing our best and brightest doctors to Australia/ New Zealand. We’ve got a government that don’t care and we’ve got no say in the matter until next October ….