To think Tyrion was the villain?

[lilpeepgothboy]

I mean who cares it ended ages ago but with the sequel of Jon Snow (I think is happening?) I’ve rewatched a few episodes.

He sacrificed Varys to save himself, a friend who saved his life. He was also a crap hand of The Queen. He encouraged Jon to kill Dani.

And he got away with no consequences. Loved him throughout but that final season

There's only one villain in the whole ASOIAF saga is George R R Martin, the king of procrastination, emperor of delay, sultan of broken promises.

I still remember the foreword to DoD in 2011 where he apologies for the 6 year wait between it and the previous book and promises that his loyal readers won't have a wait like that again for winds of winter. I suppose he was kind of right cause it's been 12+ years now. Bloody prick.

True as they usually lack the Machiavellian abilities to play the game of thrones

It has took the biscuit writing the book

He's obviously a prolific and capable writer, so what's happened here? Severe writer's block? I haven't read the books, has he written himself into a corner? That's the problem with authors who don't plan, although after the way the TV series ended, he surely can't make it any worse. Just get Dani the Mad Queen to Dracarys the whole bloody planet if need be.

Varys should have been better than to openly plot like he did,

I wonder if the ending he had planned was the TV series ending but then realised the public omg

Oh come on, it finished years ago.

Dorothy gets back home again in the Wizard of Oz as well.

Interesting analysis here.

https://www.indy100.com/showbiz/game-of-thrones-season-8-episodes-george-rr-martin-novels-8917166

They're all villains. Absolutely gross the lot of them

to be honest I think the whole last 2 seasons were so random and inconsistent that you can't trust any of the characterisation...

Tyrion was a political genius for 6 seasons and then as soon as he got back to westeros apparently lost all his braincells. None of his arguments made sense - Daenerys had the biggest army westeros had ever seen by that point, why did he keep discouraging her from just taking king's landing? Why was he so keen to save Cersei whom he'd spent his entire life hating?

Varys spent literal decades planning for Dany to take the throne but then changed his mind because he decided she was mad although she hadn't actually done anything to indicate that by that point...

Jaime spent 6 years growing as a character only to just go right back to Cersei with no explanation

Bran literally declared he was incapable of being the lord of winterfell because he was the 3 eyed raven but then was magically ok with being king?

Dany...I agree she's always had a dark side and therefore the potential to turn 'evil' (but then so did pretty much all of the other characters....) but her whole character arc was about not wanting to harm innocents - there was absolutely nothing to indicate that she'd randomly destroy the place she'd spent her whole life trying to get back to! They tried to give her some rationale about turning 'mad' because people didn't love her in westeros so she felt she had to rule by fear instead, but we'd literally just seen 2 seasons of the people in literally every other city she'd conquered uprising against her, so it's not as if she wasn't used to being unpopular and ruling by force!

Not Myrcella, Tommen, Sansa, Rickon or Robb.

Tyrion was to the end who he always was. A survivor. There wasn't malice or psychopathy or an inherent thirst for power in him , and he knew the right thing to do and could see the bigger picture, but ultimately him staying alive came first. The self preservation instinct always came first when the chips were down.

I think the corner situation is the most likely scenario. I mean he's worked on 7 books, 3 video games, 4 TV series and a short film since DoD, so seems to be able to write when needs be. From what Ive read in my slim hopes of an update many feel the books had gotten so complex with too many story lines running that it was always going to be a huge challenge to close them all out in a satisfactory way.

I did wondered if he gave the show writers a rough idea of how he planned to close out the books and the negative reception to that has scuppered those plans.

At this point I'd be happy if he just took what he'd written already for WoW and had the red commet slam I to Westeros, killing everyone. At least it would be an ending.

RE the books, it has been said he has needed to employ fact-checkers such as Elio Garcia from the Westeros website to help him. The books are very far behind the show and going in so many different ways that it's basically going to be impossible to bring certain storylines around off the top of my head:

Sansa is still with Littlefinger Ramsey has a girl he believes is Arya but isn't
Tyrion is with a character that doesn't feature in the series but is significant in the books- a possible Targaryen
Jon has warged into Ghost
Davos is on the hunt for Osha and Rickon in order to get support from The North
Bran still in tree, no doors held yet.

Now I read the book 12 years ago so anyone can correct that happily if I'm off.

Why does he need a face checker when he invented the inworld universe?

Presumably because he’s waited so long to finish anything he has, quite literally, lost the plot(s)

He's struggling to recall apparently

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elio_M._García_Jr._and_Linda_Antonsson

I find it really odd the way some people think Dany’s descent was sudden- they’d been signalling it for years. I liked the ending. I liked that Cersei didn’t get some big dramatic comeuppance, just a quiet failed escape attempt- it felt real. I liked that Sansa won. It pissed me off that she didn’t have an army waiting at the wall to bring Jon home the second Greyworm left, but he was probably happier beyond the wall. The only thing that annoyed me was the lack of a detailed introduction of the random lords electing Bran, but I loved Sansa squashing her uncle. And I loved that Gendry was there, because he was always a favourite.

But to answer OP’s question, I didn’t vote because I don’t overall agree that Tyrion was a wrongun, but I can’t argue with your examples. I think he could have got Varys out.

I agree with others that it’s GRRM who is the real issue.

The problem the show runners had is that the source material gets more and more convoluted over time. Martin has lost his grip on the story and has created so many subplots and characters that he’s clearly finding it impossible to pull it all back together in any satisfying way. When they started the GOT TV series it was never meant to outrun the books. The source material was meant to be finished and the show was meant to be an adaptation. There’s now been over thirty POV characters alone and it’s increasingly clear that Martin himself has no idea how to bring the whole thing to a close.

I'd love to watch it all again. Is it on any of the streaming services?

When you find out who Luke Skywalker's father is, it's going to blow your mind.

She’d just watched Missandei and one of her dragons die - seemed pretty clear to me that she was in a pissy mood and got carried away.

The megalomania afterwards seemed a bit stapled on, I’ll give you that.

Have you read the books? I think he was supposed to be the villain the way the books were going! And there is a quote from GRRM which sort of confirms this (google it)

spoilers incoming….

I think that in the books Tyrion will persuade Dany to burn KL

Tyrion was good to Sansa. He didn't have to be. That redeemed him greatly I think.

You can see it on Now TV.