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Original poster

To think Tyrion was the villain?

119 replies

lilpeepgothboy · 26/06/2023 22:47

I mean who cares it ended ages ago but with the sequel of Jon Snow (I think is happening?) I’ve rewatched a few episodes.

He sacrificed Varys to save himself, a friend who saved his life. He was also a crap hand of The Queen. He encouraged Jon to kill Dani.

And he got away with no consequences. Loved him throughout but that final season

OP posts:
MelonsOnSaleAgain · 27/06/2023 07:13

I am glad there are a few others who didn’t loathe the end. I really enjoyed it right through.

It was dark, morally dubious, bleak, and didn’t follow any traditional kind of narrative at the close.

As to Tyrion, I don’t agree he was the villain. I think virtually everyone had their dark side. They all played their game and some lost and some survived and winter was coming, then winter was there.

If anything winter was the villain. It’s like global warming we face, the world is facing a natutal disaster and bar a few people shouting about it, everyone’s too busy with their own machinations to care. GOT is an allegory for now.

nosykids · 27/06/2023 07:20

I didn't like Bran and was disappointed with that aspect of the ending, but otherwise I thought it was appropriate that Daenerys went mad (and that the signs were there all along) and that Jon killed her. I also liked that Jon got to go and live beyond the wall with his mates - much better ending for him than becoming king. The less dramatic parts of the ending are hazy - wasn't the point that the king was elected by a council, rather than the throne being inherited/won by conquest as in the past? Although I think the leader of each realm was still in place because of inheritance/bloodshed, so still the same as before in that sense.

Prescottdanni123 · 27/06/2023 08:03

I didn't really like Danaerys. Power crazed little brat. I get that she wanted to reclaim her family's kingdom (although they stole most of that from other people to begin with) but she had no right to rule the whole world. And after what did at Kings Landing - killing loads of innocent citizens after the city surrendered. She was too dangerous to keep alive.

HaveYouHeardOfARoadAtlas · 27/06/2023 08:04

I think he was basically a good person, but knew he had to play the game to survive. He had a major disadvantage due to his height, he was never going to be a great warrior, knight, prince, king......so he had to be useful in other ways.

Dotjones · 27/06/2023 08:12

It's been a while since I watched it and I can't remember her name, but the woman with the dragons turned out to be the real villain in my eyes. Spent the whole series appearing to be largely OK (in GOT terms) then flipped out and massacred innocent people. Glad she was killed off. The moral of the story? Never let a woman rule solely based on her ability to operate some dragons.

Brefugee · 27/06/2023 08:16

lilpeepgothboy · 26/06/2023 22:47

I mean who cares it ended ages ago but with the sequel of Jon Snow (I think is happening?) I’ve rewatched a few episodes.

He sacrificed Varys to save himself, a friend who saved his life. He was also a crap hand of The Queen. He encouraged Jon to kill Dani.

And he got away with no consequences. Loved him throughout but that final season

Varys would have done the same thing if it came down to a "him or me" situation, as we know from his past

As Hand to the Queen he tried to steer Dani along the diplomatic route - a prosperous country with trade deals and diplomatic ties is more successful than one that wages a scorched earth policy over "rivals" who just want a better deal.

Encouraged Jon to kill Dani. Did you even see what was happening to her? it was the thing she feared the most, being a mad Queen like her forbears. What do you think he should have done? forgiven all for love? let her be burned to death?

you don't seem to have a grasp of nuance. Is GoT the right thing for you?

Brefugee · 27/06/2023 08:18

EineReiseDurchDieZeit · 26/06/2023 22:58

D & D are doing 3 Body Problem on Netflix next the books are complete so they can't shit the bed too badly

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. Say it ain't so.

EineReiseDurchDieZeit · 27/06/2023 08:54

Fraid so @Brefugee

AmadeustheAlpaca · 27/06/2023 12:03

I agree with the PP who liked that the ending was unHollywoodish. Useless people become figurehead leaders in real life and Tyrion at least became the power behind the throne. One of his previous claims to fame had been sorting out the sewage system in Kings Landing so he would clearly get his priorities right when running a kingdom.
Jon was not unhappy about being exiled and he just wanted a quiet life with his mates. He never wanted to be a king and had been involved in the deaths of his two big loves so a life in the limelight was not for him.

DrSbaitso · 27/06/2023 12:15

Useless people become figurehead leaders in real life

But they usually do something to bring it about, or at the very least they're pushed into it as pawns by people who benefit from them being there. There was literally no reason for everyone to suddenly go Bran crazy. He didn't do anything except have a few pointless visions. It was a real waste of a character, it would have been brilliant to show him as an actual mastermind who influenced stuff after he became disabled. Like Oracle in DC.

I would have liked an ending where Dani became queen and then opened her eyes and they were White Walker blue. Or someone takes the Iron Throne and then at the end, pulls off their face and it's Arya.

GasPanic · 27/06/2023 12:27

Not seen the last season.

I bought seasons 1-6 on blu ray and watched them cos it was cheap.

But now I am thinking that series was so fantastic in terms of production that it would be worth getting the whole lot in 4k. Plus it has the sort of colour schemes where HDR would really make a big difference.

Got to get it to under £70 before I buy it in 4K though.

Has anyone else got it in 4k ?

tennesseewhiskey1 · 27/06/2023 12:29

The real villain is that bloody Bran the bloody bird or raven or broken whatever. What a fuck up of season 8 - yes I’m still bitter.

Bookist · 27/06/2023 12:45

MusicInAWord · 26/06/2023 23:15

But the real genius of GOT was that you ended up loving truly despicable people. None of them were decent people, all of them were flawed, but you could still find something likeable in almost all of them.

Hell yeah! Look at Jaime, starts the books shagging his own twin sister and cheerfully pushes a young Bran out of a window hoping to kill him. So, incestuous child murderer, and yet by halfway through the books I would have cheerfully shagged him into a coma. That's the beauty of GRR Martin's writing, in that everyone is just varying shades of grey through to black.

CatherineMaitland · 27/06/2023 12:47

I liked the ending too but agree the execution was hasty. Still some amazing highs - the episode before the Long Night was brilliant.

lastminutewednesday · 27/06/2023 12:53

@DrSbaitso if it had ended up being a face pull off and it was Arya that would have at least made up for the total waste of time storyline where she was training and fighting with that annoying waif girl and went blind. I always felt that was a bit pointless and dull!

I would have liked Jon to end up the throne, supported in his counsel by the other people previously viewed as misfits-tormund, Brienne, Tyrion, Bron, Bran, Davos and Sam.
I felt that would have been a nice ending with everyone that at the beginning was seen as being wrong or flawed in some way by the people in power actually ending up in Control and doing good things.

The actual ending was obviously rubbish.

FuckOffTom · 27/06/2023 12:58

FanFanBam · 26/06/2023 23:07

I think they should’ve ended it with the battle / night king episode, and not had the bit after that.

I agree with this. That battle episode was epic - the rest of the season, not so much.

LittleLegsKeepGoing · 27/06/2023 13:00

I liked the Thrones ending, the clues to it are there from the beginning and I suspect that the last two books in the series will never be written as the ending is George’s intended ending as told to the scriptwriters.

The character arcs for too many of the key players was completely different in the books for George Martin to have conceived of the show ending independently of D&D. This is because he's a lazy arse who cannot be bothered to actually finish an epic series more than 20 years after starting it. Still angry that I can't read the proper ending to the books

DrSbaitso · 27/06/2023 13:05

lastminutewednesday · 27/06/2023 12:53

@DrSbaitso if it had ended up being a face pull off and it was Arya that would have at least made up for the total waste of time storyline where she was training and fighting with that annoying waif girl and went blind. I always felt that was a bit pointless and dull!

I would have liked Jon to end up the throne, supported in his counsel by the other people previously viewed as misfits-tormund, Brienne, Tyrion, Bron, Bran, Davos and Sam.
I felt that would have been a nice ending with everyone that at the beginning was seen as being wrong or flawed in some way by the people in power actually ending up in Control and doing good things.

The actual ending was obviously rubbish.

The problem with Jon ending up on the throbe is that the only people actually fit to rule are people who don't want to. And then they'll get toppled in that world if they aren't at least slightly arseholes.

Brefugee · 27/06/2023 14:40

EineReiseDurchDieZeit · 27/06/2023 08:54

Fraid so @Brefugee

sigh.
Oh well. I will try to avoid it. (which reminds me, i have the 2nd book waiting to be read)

MummBRaaarrrTheEverLeaking · 27/06/2023 15:03

Only decent bit was Jon buggering back off to the Wall, he would have been a shite king. Not that Bran was any better. And Sansa being queen in the north was good, but that's it. I really thought they did Dany dirty, a cowed meek girl at the beginning, people trying to take advantage of her for whatever they could and she showed them all.

But nah. A woman with that much power? Let's send her off her rocker and kill her off instead. Replace her on the throne with a teenage boy who talks in fucking riddles 24/7 and everyone is just ok with that?

Night King, wrapped up sharpish. Dragons, meh. The whole dark magic thing, went out with a whimper. Cersei, just drop a ceiling on her and have done with it. The whole thing was just so lazy! Haven't even bothered with HOTD.

AmadeustheAlpaca · 27/06/2023 17:37

@DrSbaitso I really like your alternate endings. Dany as a white walker would be a great idea for a further series. However we don’t know if she’s actually dead as her dragon flew off with her and she could potentially be revived by a red priestess

Delphinium20 · 27/06/2023 18:04

MelonsOnSaleAgain · 27/06/2023 07:13

I am glad there are a few others who didn’t loathe the end. I really enjoyed it right through.

It was dark, morally dubious, bleak, and didn’t follow any traditional kind of narrative at the close.

As to Tyrion, I don’t agree he was the villain. I think virtually everyone had their dark side. They all played their game and some lost and some survived and winter was coming, then winter was there.

If anything winter was the villain. It’s like global warming we face, the world is facing a natutal disaster and bar a few people shouting about it, everyone’s too busy with their own machinations to care. GOT is an allegory for now.

This is how I feel about the ending as well! And smart assessment that winter was the winner and the ultimate villain, albeit w/out intent.

EineReiseDurchDieZeit · 27/06/2023 18:26

@MummBRaaarrrTheEverLeaking

I would try with HOTD

It was really good and the ending is already well established

Hawkins0001 · 27/06/2023 18:28

DrSbaitso · 26/06/2023 22:52

I think most of them were meant to be complex characters.

That ending, though. I still haven't recovered.

King Bran, Doer of Nothing.

The other thing with bran is it's not actually bran as he's possessed by the being known as the three eyed Raven

Hawkins0001 · 27/06/2023 18:29

AmadeustheAlpaca · 27/06/2023 17:37

@DrSbaitso I really like your alternate endings. Dany as a white walker would be a great idea for a further series. However we don’t know if she’s actually dead as her dragon flew off with her and she could potentially be revived by a red priestess

I suspect the red priestess idea too, seems most likely