Is behaviour out of control in a lot of schools?

[Sophie12319]

Not sure whether to move DD (10) to another school. Everyday she's coming home saying she can't learn as there are a group of boys who throw stuff about the classroom, shout out when the teacher is talking, walk about the classroom in lesson. She has said teacher has sent them to headteacher in the past but it carries on.

This is not a teacher bashing thread btw (in fact, I have the upmost respect for DD's teacher as I have seen the boys behaviour at the school gate and I don't know how she does a whole day), maybe more of a parent bashing of why some parents let their kids behave like this?

Anyway, back to the point of thread, I spoke to my sister about moving her to which she said there's no point as he DS' school is the same.
Feel a bit hopeless as I feel DD's education is being ruined! I've emailed the school before about their behaviour but I feel at a loss!

DS used to be bitten or punched daily at his first school, i don't blame the child but the schools response was simply- they can't help it they have additional needs (the other child). I said I do not wish for you to share the child's diagnosis with me as its not my business, I want to know how you're going to keep my child safe. As if any parent is just ah thats fine then I don't mind that my child is sent home sometimes during the school day because they've been injured, or that every day they dread going in. Again, not the other child's fault but pleased to say his next school was miles better.

As a teacher my take is yes. Poor behavior is on the increase. SEN is being more and more allowed as a reason, even when the need doesn’t match the behavior. Teenagers are more and more obnoxious and rude. No backing from SLT and threat of ofsted means PEX is frowned upon.

There's currently another thread lambasting Katherine Birbalsingh and the discipline in her school.....It was rated outstanding by ofsted and praised for the way it helps children who arrive at the school with learning problems. Not enough for the mums who were left traumatised by their strict schools .....

Yes.

So much of being regulated comes down to good habits.

Parenting now, and school as well, don't seem to see any reason to develop good habits. Habits of getting along with others, habits that make learning easier, habits of listening to adults in charge without disputing.

It makes everything harder, for the people around the child, but also for the individual child.

Screens are also a huge factor. 50 years from now we will look at giving them to kids as we would giving them cigarettes. But for now, they have them all the time, and worse, many schools entourage them to spend more time on them during school hours.

That all being said - of course some kids are just little shits, where do shitty adults come from if not shitty kids. Some people are just not nice, or they are selfish, or they are psychopaths.

I have spent a lot of time with kids in different environments, including the classroom. Certainly education needs reform, plenty of people should probably be in apprenticeships much sooner.

But also, some kids are bad because they want to be. My partner was a delinquent as a kid. He behaved at home because he had a very strict immigrant mother. Outside, he did about every bad thing possible. Why? Mainly, he liked the excitement. He liked the money, and at that age saw no issues with taking it from people who he saw as unimportant or jerks, but mainly he liked the thrill of being chased by the police or getting in a fight or carrying an illegal weapon. It wasn't until he was much older he saw the larger consequences of his actions and how they impacted society.

There have been 27 pages of some saying bad behaviour in the class is caused by kids with SEN who aren't supported enough.

Last werk during our staff meeting and CPD session a member of the SLT made an off the cuff remark. He mentioned there would be 'no exit room next year'.
Exit room being where students go if they have been particular unpleasant or even violent. We have no support from SLT. We are a small semi rural school. The students, especially Year 8, are dreadfully badly behaved. No sanctions, no support, too much admin, computers and equipment don't work, no longer teaching but crowd control.
They are building an alternative behaviour unit in the grounds for students across the academy trust. Frankly, it would be better putting the few students who want to learn in there and letting the rest have the main school.

Still in the middle of reading the thread but my point of view is parents are stretched to the max. Everything has gone through the roof in terms of cost, jobs don't pay enough to survive, uc can sanction you in a heartbeat, food banks referrals are through the roof, insecure housing but yet we think children have a calm environment at home when the parents are worried about all of that. Of course the children are going to pick up on the anxiety of the parents although they may not know why but I can certainly see it coming out as disruptive behaviour in school.
It all comes back to the tories not putting enough money into the country to support families.

@girlfriend44

Who are the do gooders the conservatives have been in power since 2010, sounds like another excuse to blame someone else and deflect responsibility.

Also surely behaviour is a parent’s responsibility not the apparent “dogooders”

@Mydpisgrumpierthanyours

Valid points but doesn’t explain the awful behaviour from kids who come from very financially affluent families. They’re buffered from the extremes of the COL crisis but can be still just as disengaged, entitled and rude.

@stbrandonsboat @GCalltheway your comments about making provisions for home schooling resonates. Which state do you think it'll be most effective?
What else do you suggest parent begin to put in place considering how the education system is now. Yes, more are educated in the formal way for professions but quality is down and other skills important for a strong society is neglected.

A lot of judgemental comments here
My ds is probably one of those children you describe - struggles to concentrate, speaks out in class, walks around sometimes - we and school are convinced he has Adhd and tourettes he struggles with emotional disregulation as well so appears argumentative and dismissive when challenged. 2 years on waiting list now and absolutely zero support is given by the school or the gp - we are pretty much on our own and so is he but so easy to just assume he's "bad" or wilfully disruptive when actually some of these children are being massively let down

I haven't read the entire thread but perhaps some of the teachers could ask a question for me please?

I'm just curious really. Are there certain year groups worse than others now? Or has behaviour deteriorated across the board? Are there any year groups that are doing "OK". Would be interesting to see the responses and compare what stage these groups were in during lockdown.

Classy and you know fuck all about our home

Maybe have a bit of empathy for a struggling childband and educate yourself on neurodiversity before saying such judgemental bullshit

Hope he does get some support Figgy

I just find it strange that we never had any children in my schools (80s/90s) who walked around, constantly interrupted, couldn't control their emotions etc to the extent you read about now.
We certainly had some who called out occasionally, but if it happened more than a few times they'd be sent out. And no one ever got up and started wandering about. And if any one was challenged for shouting out/ being a twat they soon shut up then didn't get worse.

@Figgygal

Isnt that the problem though? If the behaviours of certain developmental conditions are the same as behaviours from trauma/poor boundaries/lack of a good home life then it’s all just got very complex hasnt it?

It’s certainly easier for some parents to blame the school rather than themselves. Schools don’t have a leg to stand on when it’s far easier for parents to place blame on the ‘condition’ or attached label. And on and on this madness goes with no real solutions.

I just find it strange that we never had any children in my schools (80s/90s) who walked around, constantly interrupted, couldn't control their emotions etc to the extent you read about now.

Same. Literally never happened. I'm not having a go at parents and children who are struggling but I would like to know what has changed so much.

@Mukey

I can certainly think of a few who struggled to concentrate and whom couldn’t focus. They weren’t rude though or disruptive.

Oh definitely I'm not saying my school was all totally well behaved and perfect students. There was some kids who talked back occasionally and clearly couldn't or didn't want to do the work. There were some teachers who struggled to control the class and in those classes suddenly there was a lot more chatters/misbehavors. But once a strict teacher appeared, suddenly even the worst behaved child would shut up!

@Mukey

My son who’s in year 8 says the same. That, depressingly, many of his peers only ever shut up and stop being disruptive once they have male teachers (who happen to be really strict). Such a shame for the kids who actually do want to learn.

At age 16, home educated children can go to a sixth form or further education college to gain either A Levels, T Levels or do an apprenticeship. They just need to get through their GCSEs prior to age 16.

Education can either be done by parents, private tutors or by attending an online school. GCSEs course materials can be purchased online. Exams can be sat privately at exam centres in towns and cities.

Primary school educational material can also be purchased online.

Many children/teens have been bullied out of schools and are having to make their own arrangements already because schools can't meet their needs. I don't think that parents should have to pay for online schooling, the government should pay because they can't provide a safe environment in schools anymore. Any child who wants to should be able to access online education.

Because schools are soft, it's as simple as that. Kids know what they can get away with and what they can't.

The very worst kids won't care and need to be disciplined properly for the benefit of everyone else and excluded if necessary. Most will fall into line with discipline and boundaries.

I just stumbled across the tv series 'Waterloo road' a month ago and been hooked ever since. I am shocked at the behaviour of the pupils there and helpless the teachers seem. One particular teacher has been punched and slapped in the face in 3 separate episodes by different students yet seemed to go back and apologise to the student! am convinced it cannot be this bad in schools nowadays and lot of it is just for the entertainment effect. Seriously, those who have watched it, is it this bad now?

IMO, it's worse across the board. Too many children come into school not ready to learn, with parents who've told them they don't need to listen to the teachers, the only people they need to respect are their parents etc. (That's what children have told me).

We no longer have time in the timetable to speak to children and do work with individuals to nip issues in the bud.

Social and emotional issues that were previously tackled in KS1 are now still present in KS2.

Lots of parents struggling - trauma, DV, substance misuse, low self esteem, financial issues, CP involvement, large families and pregnant again when they're not coping with what they already have.

Just thinking of issues in my class alone.

SEN actually accounts for a very small number of issues in my class.