Is behaviour out of control in a lot of schools?

[Sophie12319]

Not sure whether to move DD (10) to another school. Everyday she's coming home saying she can't learn as there are a group of boys who throw stuff about the classroom, shout out when the teacher is talking, walk about the classroom in lesson. She has said teacher has sent them to headteacher in the past but it carries on.

This is not a teacher bashing thread btw (in fact, I have the upmost respect for DD's teacher as I have seen the boys behaviour at the school gate and I don't know how she does a whole day), maybe more of a parent bashing of why some parents let their kids behave like this?

Anyway, back to the point of thread, I spoke to my sister about moving her to which she said there's no point as he DS' school is the same.
Feel a bit hopeless as I feel DD's education is being ruined! I've emailed the school before about their behaviour but I feel at a loss!

I’m genuinely on the edge - currently fending off dojo messages from angry parents because their child doesn’t have the ‘main role’ in the year 6 production. I’ve always gone above and beyond and now I’m done.

Unless we all start complaining to the government, nothing is going to be done. I did this online 2 days ago. This is not education. Teachers cannot teach due to the uncontrollable children, they can't discipline and the bad children are affecting everything from the mental health of other children, parents and teachers, they are teaching the good kids how to behave badly and the education is substandard.
Our kids have to attend school to be educated, they get fined for not attending. Let's fight against this appalling system and get it back in order, by everyone expressing their concerns to the government, not to the school.

We’ve just had parents evening for my year 7 DS- they said the whole year seems more immature behaviour wise, and blame covid. The secondary have an ‘isolation unit’ which is really just a portacabin for break time detentions, and a green amber red system that parents can see. It seems to work, but there are many unfilled vacancies.

My DDs primary school problem is the backlog of pupils with behaviour issues waiting (years!) for diagnosis. Now she is year 5 and the 3 with the worst problems are getting treatment and support the whole class is much better (they teach two years to a class as is tiny school).

So I guess if the school admits if has a problem and a plan to make it better, I would hang in there.

I can't comment in a general way but I felt with my DS the collaborative approach just didn't work. He had a lot of behaviour problems at home and there were sanctions but the constant cycle of it all was wearing for everyone. I remember telling the school he needs a firm hand, don't take crap from him etc. While they were good with him in many ways, their policy / sanction was to tell me everything and expect me to punish or whatever on my watch, for incidents that happened in school where I had no context. It was unfair on me and it didn't work, I was frustrated cos I had explained the situation. Eventually one teacher got tough and used to absolutely f*ck him out of it and send him out of class, stop him doing PE (his favourite) and I think she went against every policy and could have gotten herself in trouble. And guess what, he behaved for her. Parents cannot be the only adults who set boundaries, at least I was trying but many have illness or other issues and therefore no one sets boundaries for those kids. It's definitely a culture of the soft approach that is failing the average kid IMO.

One card in a year from one parent or pupil in a deprived secondary school with behavioural issues is worth more in my view than twenty cards from nice families in a nice little primary in a nice little area.

In any case, primary kids write many more cards than their contemporaries at secondary. Because their parents make them!

And no doubt this charming little sociopath will go on to harm her own children and will end up in the newspapers at some point.

i don’t even know where to begin on this topic. My DS first secondary school year has had me dealing with situations I couldn’t have even dreamed might have been a problem.

My son isn’t an Angel, he’s had detentions but in actual fact not for behaviour, for other things. But I know his primary school Nemesis (sadly in his tutor group), regularly swears at teachers, is found vaping and openly admits to steeling (I have no concrete evidence). If removed from class, that’s exactly what he wants and so does it more - he doesn’t want to be at school and has no interest in learning.

If I come face to face with a group of teenagers, I feel intimidated - I can’t imagine what it must be like as a teacher confronting all this daily. Frankly, I think they deserve a medal!

Teachers are now, teachers, counsellors, police, and a whole lot more.

I take my hat off to you! And, to any teacher teaching my son - I absolutely know he gets distracted but he actually does enjoy leaning. 😊

PRU's (those that are left) are full to bursting and like the rest of the education system are suffering from chronic underfunding, lack of support from other agencies who are also stretched to breaking point, and increasing difficulty recruiting and retaining skilled and experienced staff.

Passing the problem along to different settings doesn't solve anything. It's just kicking the can down the road. We need services for children and families at all levels that are properly funded and sustainable, to tackle the causes of challenging behaviour and lack of engagement with education. We need investment in prevention and early intervention. But depressingly, the government aren't interested in that, they're more likely to agree with the pp who wants to stick them all in a padded room and leave them to rot.

Usernamealreadytaken
Some of the kids ruining the education of others in my school do not have special needs. They have had more time than many other kids. They laugh at sanctions and are rude and disrespectful. Their parents are either in denial or are completely lacking the will to discipline them.

I'm in awe of you! Well done.

We're a PRU and yes, fit to bursting. With the funding (which actually LA are desperate enough to provide) we could expand, but long term placements in a PRU are not the answer.

I’ve read the whole thread (commented early on) and it has been such an eye opener.

I moved my son last year (yr 7) as he was being bullied. The next school isn’t perfect but it’s better for him.

The most disruption apparently happens in English with one young teacher. Apparently 5/6 pupils just do that low level disruption that spoils it for everyone.

I did ask whether he’d like have the opportunity to HE and luckily he said no. His eduction is better at this school but he’s too sociable to be home educated. He’s a kid that will probably have a trade or join the military. He just needs to get out the other side.

I work in a Primary School & the behaviour/language/abuse I see & experience on a DAILY basis from 10&11 year olds is SHOCKING! No-one would believe it unless they saw it.

Barely a week goes by without me being told to fuck off countless times, being called all the names under the sun & having to dodge a flying chair or 2... let alone the relentless overall rudeness, disrespect, back-chat, eye rolling, face pulling, tutting & lack of basic good manners - I pull kids up for not saying please or thank you at least 10 times a day, EVERY day!

And don't even get me started on the weak, ineffective parents who have created these little monsters...& the angry, defensive, equally as rude ones who think it's all our fault & back their kids 100%!

No wonder teachers are leaving in droves & there's a National recruitment crisis.

We moved my granddaughter to 3 different primary schools before finding one where the children didn’t behave in this disruptive manner. I was concerned about the disruption to her education and her settling in etc when we had to keep moving her, but we were all glad in the end that we did do. She progressed so well when we found a good school. She’s now at senior school and although there are disruptive children at this school, they seem to be mostly on top of it. Or they expel them. But I hear from other people that this behaviour is a problem in their children’s schools. What is going on with this generation of children, they seem to have not been taught any respect or manners 💁😪

We have well behaved children in our school secondary. The pressure comes from academic achievement or lack of.

The nice kids aren’t sending you cards due to being so pissed off with the way their education has suffered due to your indulgence of the bratty kid

I'm in Scotland too. I work with the young people who are kicked out of class, and one of 'my' girls was recently externally excluded for one week! This is more or less unheard of these days. Exclusions are usually internal. God forbid their feckless parents should have to deal with them at home!

I've experienced 2 primary schools, not known behaviour like this! The odd one or 2 kids that shout out or misbehave are dealt with effectively according to my kids, usually the teacher channels that energy into something else. Have the issues been raised with the school? If it is causing a safety concern then report it to the governors. Not all schools are the same

Behaviour is awful. Since covid and still getting worse. What has changed enormously is the amount of parents who will give their kids excuses, focus on the wrong part of the behaviour, get them out of detentions/sanctions. It's ruining schools as there is no sanction.

Isolation - kids get taken home
Suspension - kids love it being at home - no challenge or boundaries (in some cases)
Detention - "my kid isn't doing detention"

Uniform - why does it matter if my kid is in jeans/leggings/shorts..

There is nothing further we can do if parents don't support the school. Doesn't matter if SLT are on board or not, schools in many places are over subscribed so kids can't even be moved to a different school.

Don't even get me started with the amount of verbal abuse parents hand out.

But where would you put these kids if not PRU? What really annoys me is the sheer lack of acknowledgment of the damage - serious damage - on the mental health and education of the rest of the school population these kids actions have. Having these kids in a mainstream school setting may be the best outcome for them, but it is disastrous for everyone else. The well behaved kids have a right to an education in a safe environment. If only this was respected by those who call for us to show ‘compassion’.

Somebody had better formulate a better model of management of these people before the state education system completely collapses. Children like this have virtually no chance of growing up to be responsible and productive citizens and be capable of parenting when their own doomed offspring emerge. It's going to be a really shit society with these characters trying to hold down jobs and interacting with the public. Or is it going to become a two tier society with vast swathes of the population rendered completely useless because they were never socialised in even the most basics of acceptable human behaviour? It's gonna be fun out there.

What is the schooling system for?

One card in a year from one parent or pupil in a deprived secondary school with behavioural issues is worth more in my view than twenty cards from nice families in a nice little primary in a nice little area.

Brilliant @Distract . That's exactly the attitude that is leading to all of the children who want to learn being thrown under the bus and the vast majority of educational resources being diverted away from education to schools acting like social services for incompetent parents and disruptive children who ruin the chance of learning, achieving potential and also not having a miserable time at school for all of the others. 🙄

We're pretty much there already. De-evolution is well underway.

Huh? I am not a teacher. I was just commenting on how I would value a card from a pupil more if I was a secondary teacher in a rough area.

certain subjects like Advanced Maths or Classics which are needed for the top Unis, are not taught at all in the schools were the “poors” go

Which 'top unis' require Advanced Maths or Classics, other than for degrees in Maths and Classics - and not always then, in the case of Classics?