All women I know are in my situation

[growli]

Pretty useless DH. They're left to look after the kids. Called nags if they complain.

It mostly falls on them. The marriages are pretty rubbish.

I've posted here so many times about my issues with my H and my lifestyle with small kids.

I always get told I need to divorce. I get told that there are other men out there who aren't as useless with their children.

In real life, every woman I know, faces something similar. Mainly responsible for everything to do with kids and house, works full time most of the time too.

Husband works hard, but doesn't contribute to looking after the kids or household. Complains of not enough sex.

The women I know are highly educated and in successful careers. We all feel stitched up. We were told if we study hard and are in successful careers, we wouldn't end up being slaves to our husbands and children.

What happened to the men our parents raised ? For them to expect women to still be like their mothers ? Doing everything for kids and family.

Mothers and mothers in law in general ( even though they raised us to be successful career women with choices ) don't have a whole lot of sympathy as it seems a raise to the bottom and ' how much harder ' it was for them.

I realise I'm generalising

Working through the thread. On paper I'm educated, reasonable career and carry everything. I earn almost double 'D'H's wage. I do all the bedtimes, baths, night get ups except for 1.5 hrs a week. I sometimes think it'd be easier alone

If he is happy with the status quo and you are too then happy days!
I am not saying a relationship is like a balance sheet but many people on here seem to feel very hard done by when they are part of the problem.

In my view you are a mug. Tell DH this and he needs to shape up or fuck off.

@SouthLondonMum22 If course not - I didn’t get out of bed to remind him or put the sponge/spray in his hand 😒🤣

He did. The kitchen is prob clean too.

I feel a bit bad, Id hate coming home and doing it all solo but I’d do the same for him if ill and will prob do a bit more tm if feeling better.

For those asking about age, we are both early 40s, educated, mid earners (over Nat average) born Londoners, together 20 years if that makes any difference.

In my view a low quality wife is simply not mirroring her partners effort. Some earn more/less, do more/less housework, want more/less me time.
if it works for the other person then fantastic, if not sort it out and do not settle for poor treatment. Own the problem and the solution instead of whining on MN.

And I am still drowning with full time work (needed to financially pay all living expenses) and full responsibility for child raising outside of those hours. I know what I need for self care and improved mental health - which is less work and more time for myself. This is not affordable. I survive on anti-depressants and benzodiazepines for anxiety; otherwise I can’t sleep for more than 3 hours a night [ I managed 3 hours a night for about a year, until it got to the point where I thought it might be easier to simply drive into a tree]

I'm sorry. I really am. What you have just described is dreadful.

All around me, I see women who are drowning. Some open about it; others not. Something is seriously wrong.

This thread has ample testimony to the fact that a lot do have spousal support. This has to be seen as a good thing - not another reincarnation of 'not my Nigel' - but an observation that things CAN be different.

But the other stories are depressing and alarming. Something does seem to have gone backwards here. And it's likely no coincidence that it's happening in an era in which that form of open, contemptuous misogyny which was frowned on or at best laughed at in the 80s, 90s and noughties, now seems to have gone full circle and come back with a very unpleasant vengeance.

There are all sorts of theories that could anecdotally account for this. A sustained assault on women' rights happening since the early 2010s. A proliferation of incels, who once upon a time were sad sacks sweating in dad's basement, who have now found their repugnant views legitimised by a like-minded community on the internet. An absolute epidemic of sexual assault and harassment in the workplace, a management who would rather rugsweep it than address it and instead cajole women not to make a fuss. The rude comments and side-eye received from others - in this case usually women - for daring to do something so benign and non-radical as to marry and keep our own names.

That this contempt for women is spilling over even into home life is perhaps an inevitable consequence. Or perhaps the misogyny never really went away, and was always roiling just beneath a brief period of on-the-surface enlightenment.

Remember the New Man of the 1990s? He's by no means disappeared, but is hardly a prominent figure anymore. Maybe he's also fallen victim to the cult of toxic masculinity.

What would happen if they didn't get cards though? If a SIL or MIL got upset at their brothers/sons wife instead of him then they are part of the problem.

Not true for the women I know. I think women tend to expect more from their partners and are more easily disappointed. I think some men tolerate horrendous behaviour from their women. Of course the same is true in the other direction but in general I think once men are in a relationship it takes a lot for them to be bothered enough to change women. Still have no idea if one sex cheats more than the other so I couldn't make any comments on that.

What would happen if they didn't get cards though? If a SIL or MIL got upset at their brothers/sons wife instead of him then they are part of the problem.

Yes, why on earth do you start managing his family relationships? Either the husband in question was buying the cards and presents before - then why take over? And if he wasn't, surely the family is used to it and won't expect anything.

What is the bill split, for those unhappy with their husbands?

The MIL/SIL wouldn't get upset at the woman, the point is that men rely on their partner for everything. They are either incapable of basic life skills or take their partner for granted in order to reserve their energy for work and hobbies. Women have no energy left for anything.

If someone else’s life partnership/ marriage doesn’t work the same as yours does. It doesn’t mean they are lying or imagining things. And at the same time.. some
men are awesome. Some men do make great partners.

no marriage is perfect. My husband has his foibles. As do I. But one thing I cannot say about my husband is that he doesn’t pull his weight.

but I am frankly shocked at the amount of partnerships where the man is doing the bare minimum. Do women still have sex with these men?

I've never bought cards or presents for my husband's family. It would be an outright no, that's your job.

I have three brothers and have never once even thought if picking up a gift for SIL anniversary. Or even their anniversaries!

When did all that become the basics of life? Why does a SIL need a gift for an anniversary!

If this is the mental load stressing out women then surely you can stop it. Anniversary gifts for SIL! Jesus. Omg that would not even enter my consciousness.

That's not just the mental load though is it? It's a drop in the ocean of everything else. The point is that women bear the majority load of life admin because otherwise it doesn't get done. If you don't like my example there are many others!

My husband is one of “the good ones” and definitely does his fair share of the doing but I still carry more of the mental load. It would never occur to him to check that we have birthday presents for upcoming parties the kids are invited to, for example, but when I say hey can you swing by Kmart when you do the grocery shop and stock up on Lego he’ll happily do it (I also have to give him a grocery list).

It’s very tiring.

I remain baffled by what some mumsnetters put up with though.

Where do I sign? This is the best idea I have seen for ages.

I'm beginning to understand the judging at the school gate thing now.

Growli- I hear you. I'm the main earner, a professor. We said we'd share. Not so much since children. Having kids seems to revert the men to babies. All the professional women I know say the same. Just utterly shocked at how the loving, feminist man they committed to have turned into their grandfathers (who had wives at home full time ). Even the best men seem to relax and expect. I'm in same situation. He gets his own breakfast (well done!), orders takeaway (wow! Say thankyou). I hear you lady

@SouthLondonMum22 @Maireas I think women are aware that it doesn’t have to be that way, the discussion, as I see it, is around why it so often is, and where the root of that lies. Plenty of men are great. Lots of men aren’t. If we keep pulling focus back to “the good guys” we never get down to quantifying the scale of the issue. If we can’t name it, describe it and quantify it, it’s really hard to start the job of fixing it.
The issue is more nuanced than you might think if you’ve managed to negotiate and enjoy a healthy relationship. For example, I didn’t have to be in a relationship with an abuser. I had lots of lovely, healthy relationships beforehand, so I knew how it could and should be. Unfortunately, abusers don’t show up on the first date, slap you round the face, drag you home by the hair and demand a sandwich. It starts off great. It feels normal. There’s a lot of subtle manoeuvring that takes place and it happens imperceptibly gradually, much like the way unfairness and inequality creeps into a “normal” relationship. Knowing that relationships can be great didn’t help me avoid that situation. There’s nothing I could have known that would have prevented it, because it wasn’t in my gift to prevent it. It was in his.
For sure, I’ll educate my daughter more thoroughly than I was around boundaries. However, the part that worries me is counterbalancing the toxic messages my son receives externally, from media, policy and governance makers etc. Positive role models are important, I take your point, but they’re not enough and the majority of the focus needs to be on what’s going wrong with the rest, IMO. I have a vested interest in that because I have a beautiful, caring son who is perfect, like all children. I’m interested in identifying the problem and where it comes from for his sake. An unhappy relationship and divorce is not a great outcome for him either, even if he were to be in the wrong.

I have literally just sat down. OH has done precisely fuck all apart from messing about on his laptop, making out he is doing very important things. We both work FT. Constantly chasing my tail stopping the house from imploding.

Like the 'your washing up' comment. He informed he how he had to 'clean the whole kitchen' one morning last week. He put some coffee mugs and his own breakfast things in an empty dishwasher.

He currently has a friend staying from overseas. He had one job, tidy his office and sort out the spare bed. He is flapping round me asking what he shouldput on the bed- apparently 'clean sheets from the airing cupboard' is an unhelpful answer. What he meant is come and do the one contribution I was asked to make for my own friend to stay. He can never do anything by himself.

I always have to help, even when I am right in the middle of doing something. I was completing some important paperwork on Sunday for my son who has SEN got up at 7am to have quiet time to complete it. He gets the hump because I won't help him put a cardboard box in the car.

I don't care about bad feelings, him not talking to me, I am not going to stop making him do things. In fact I quite like it when we are not talking. He can't ask me stupid questions. I love it when he travels for work. I literally count down the days. I was a single mum- that is hard, but this way harder. I would much rather be on my own when it comes to this issue.

As you can tell it gives me the rage. He has his uses, but honestly women are still in servitude but we get to pay the bills as well now....what progress.

Like someone said I'd love to be on the receiving end of what I contribute. My work work constantly suffers as I don't get those clear evenings just to get on with my projects.

“As you can tell it gives me the rage. He has his uses, but honestly women are still in servitude but we get to pay the bills as well now....what progress.”

Why do you tolerate it? As long as you do, it will continue. Just don’t.

I would leave him @Dogstar78 - I did and it was like a weight was lifted from my shoulders. It was absolutely worth the hassle. It’s really something when you come to realise how the clutter and mental load has been holding you back from achieving / relaxing / enjoying your life.

I really think more women would do themselves a favour by taking the view, apparently shared by so many men, that it doesn't need to get done. I'll guess that half of a lot of women's "mental load" can be just... let go.

There are legitimately urgent jobs and there are routine weekly jobs and then there are jobs that can be cans kicked down the road indefinitely.

And then there are jobs that are simply not to be considered tasks at all. I cannot fathom why anyone would start incorporating gifts for their in-laws as part of their mental load. I barely remember to get timely gifts for my actual DP. I have no idea when his sister's birthday is, or her husband's, or their kids.

I'm not especially proud of being a disorganised slattern and I do make the effort to get better but speaking as one - you do realise how much life admin doesn't actually matter.

I still haven't got over PLUMPING CUSHIONS from earlier in the thread. Stop plumping the bloody cushions! Or at least do it because you love it! If a man doesn't "see" that a cushion needs to be plumped, well then he's right.

It's quite strange how threads like these oscillate between desperately sad posts from women who are genuinely treated like skivvies by abhorrent men, and women who think all men are selfish because they don't plump cushions.

I hear you. It's complex and ingrained and there's no simple solutions.

I have a son too and I agree that positive role models aren't enough. Like I said, it's a start but not enough by a long shot. I worry about all of that too.

Discussion is good though and should always be encouraged.