Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

All women I know are in my situation

1000 replies

growli · 25/06/2023 13:17

Pretty useless DH. They're left to look after the kids. Called nags if they complain.

It mostly falls on them. The marriages are pretty rubbish.

I've posted here so many times about my issues with my H and my lifestyle with small kids.

I always get told I need to divorce. I get told that there are other men out there who aren't as useless with their children.

In real life, every woman I know, faces something similar. Mainly responsible for everything to do with kids and house, works full time most of the time too.

Husband works hard, but doesn't contribute to looking after the kids or household. Complains of not enough sex.

The women I know are highly educated and in successful careers. We all feel stitched up. We were told if we study hard and are in successful careers, we wouldn't end up being slaves to our husbands and children.

What happened to the men our parents raised ? For them to expect women to still be like their mothers ? Doing everything for kids and family.

Mothers and mothers in law in general ( even though they raised us to be successful career women with choices ) don't have a whole lot of sympathy as it seems a raise to the bottom and ' how much harder ' it was for them.

I realise I'm generalising

OP posts:
Starlightandsandytoes · 25/06/2023 20:20

I know you mention your children are fairly little. Mine are now both at school and it’s taken a while to find the balance but my husband is hands on with both childcare and house work. We take bedtimes / cooking etc in turns. He’ll pitch in with dinner / bedtime / cleaning as soon as he walks through the door and I’ll do the same when he’s first home. It’s taken some time to reach this point but I was determined I wasn’t going to accept anything but a fairly even split. I still carry the mental load of running the house and doing life admin but I work part time and he works full time. It’s not perfect and we’ve battled over things recently while we’ve both adjusted to me returning to work and I agree that women are constantly under more strain and pressure due to doing much of the invisible stuff but my advice would be to fight for balance as much as possible to avoid resentment. It’s taken many frank conversations and arguments to get to the point we are now at but we have a good balance and work as a team.

Gymmum82 · 25/06/2023 20:24

I’m with you and see it with 90% of my friends relationships too. My husband is great in that I can and do leave the kids with him regularly and he’s more than capable of feeding them and putting them to bed. But in terms of house work and mental load absolutely nothing.

Because I earn less he thinks all that is my job. He works and provides for the family. So I should be grateful and despite working myself I should do everything else. I’m tired of arguing with him. I’m tired of everything.

SouthLondonMum22 · 25/06/2023 20:29

tinyshoppingbasket · 25/06/2023 20:18

I agree, it would never happen. In which case, I don't think a mother's maternity leave should be cut short for Dad to take over.

He didn't just give birth after all!

A woman hasn't just given birth after 12 months or 6 months either.

Anklespraying · 25/06/2023 20:31

If I divorced my husband - no one would be on my side. They'd all think I was unreasonable. Apart from my mum. No one would support it and everyone would think I'm a complete bitch and a failure. The only acceptable reasons to leave a marriage are domestic abuse ( physical ) and perhaps cheating.

Who on earth are they and why are you living your life for them?

If anyone thinks i'm a "complete bitch" I think they are someone who I don't care to know at all. They can toddle off with their thinking.

Twocrabs20 · 25/06/2023 20:38

The women I know are highly educated and in successful careers. We all feel stitched up. We were told if we study hard and are in successful careers, we wouldn't end up being slaves to our husbands and children.

I could have written this post myself. And when I discuss this with my mum (who had a traditional set up - and hence role poor modelling of equality for my siblings and I) she is like, when are women going to realise that women are the carers of children and home, and men will never do these tasks. I despair.

I am separated from ex-h. I felt like a maid in domestic servitude; with no gratitude for my contribution; receiving constant denigration for how I wasn’t earning enough (in career / salary progression) despite trying to manage said domestic servitude with full time work; and nothing I could do / say / negotiate would motivate him to do any single thing in the home. And God knows I tried for 10 bloody years to battle for some form of equality and domestic contribution from him.

And he passively resisted / battled with me to not do a damn thing; he would say the right things - I will do it this week; and 9 months later said tasks would still not be done. He would space out domestic tasks to once every 6-9 months - so there was no point having a list, if the tasks on that list took 6-9 months to do, and I was still waiting for them to be done before adding any more.

And then I was the crazy one for being emotional when he would silently and defiantly do nothing in the home. He would silently and resolutely resist. Say yes (to shut me up), but never do a thing.

I can’t believe I put up with this for 10 years - but at the time I internalised that there must be something deficient with me to have such an unhelpful / unhappy marriage.

Then I finally cracked - realised nothing was going to change; ever. And left. I have since had the epiphany there was nothing ever wrong with me but having basic expectations of equality, which he was never able to meet; and I doubt most other men would either. I have no interest of putting myself back in that position by getting into a relationship again. I am done.

Frankly, at the time, I would have accepted and been delighted with a 70:30 split of domestic. In reality, I got about 97:3 and only after exhausting communications to get that basic 3% done.

IRL, most partnerships with children I see are like this. If I don’t see it - or the woman doesn’t outwardly complain - I still think it is largely happening behind closed doors. I possibly know 1-3 examples (3% of couples) who perhaps don’t fit this mould. I consider those relationships like unicorns.

As a generation of women, I absolutely feel we have been stitched up. I desperately hope that for my daughters, there is some improvement in gender equality. But I doubt it.

I now do 100% of lone parenting. I work full time and are entirely burnt out.

There needs to be huge educational / structural / legal change to improve conditions of women; and most men simply have an interest in this.

Wrongsideofpennines · 25/06/2023 20:43

Not read the full thread but those saying women should stop picking up the slack, how do you suggest the household functions? Sheets not washed for months on end, children go to school in their pyjamas with nothing to eat because nobody did the food shop or made them a packed lunch, nobody goes to the dentist anymore, relatives don't get birthday cards etc etc

It's not as simple as just don't do it because invariably it isn't just the man that will suffer.

SerafinasGoose · 25/06/2023 20:46

BadNomad · 25/06/2023 19:46

Why shouldn't mothers be blamed for their actions (or lack of) in these situations? Women aren't without agency. Just because a man is useless and abusive it doesn't absolve women of their responsibility towards their children. No, it's not your fault your husband is a useless piece of shit, not one person is saying it is. You aren't responsible for someone else's actions. Only your own. So if you choose to do nothing to change your situation, and that affects your children, then that is on you. It is not sexist or misogynistic to say both parents are responsible for how their children are raised.

Absolutely. I'm seeing it more and more: the accusation that unless women back other women in every walk of life, they're 'misogynist'. No. Women don't owe other women 'support' on the basis of shared XX chromosomes.

Funny how they manage to hold down the bulk of the plum CEO roles, claim most of the larger salaries and benefit packages, yet are so often deemed incapable by their wives of switching a washing machine on. Learned helplessness is only unlearned when you stop helping.

As for the lazy arses who lounge about on their backsides expecting to be nurse-maided and waited on, they'd soon break the habit of a lifetime if they found themselves doing their own cooking and laundry on a permanent basis. In any case, why is that such an unreasonable expectation? DH and I eat different food and have never thought twice about it. We've never done each other's laundry. Both equally cook and do laundry for DC.

I relate to the PP upthread who had a SAHM and a useless father. Me too. I also had maternal grandparents who had a solid, mutually respectful marriage and who both worked in the home, albeit each had their own designated tasks. He did DIY (a lot of it), household fixing and mending projects, and all the washing up, as well as working out of the home. She did the cleaning, sewing, laundry and cooking. They were from a far earlier generation (my parents were boomers), and my Granny was a formidable woman whose standards would have demanded no less.

My mum, much as I adored her, was an exemplary model of how I did not intend to live my life.

You teach people how you will allow them to treat you.

SerafinasGoose · 25/06/2023 20:47

They = 'men', obvs.

SaladBarNanny · 25/06/2023 20:48

**If I divorced my husband - no one would be on my side. They'd all think I was unreasonable. Apart from my mum. No one would support it and everyone would think I'm a complete bitch and a failure. The only acceptable reasons to leave a marriage are domestic abuse ( physical ) and perhaps cheating.

But of course, just leave your husband. Don't put up with it, right. It's so easy !**

Who are "they" and does their opinion matter ? Sometimes yes, it is as easy as don't put up with it, leave your husband. Easy as in it's a simple concept. Not always easy in practice, usually very brave, and absolutely the right thing to do.

SouthLondonMum22 · 25/06/2023 20:48

Wrongsideofpennines · 25/06/2023 20:43

Not read the full thread but those saying women should stop picking up the slack, how do you suggest the household functions? Sheets not washed for months on end, children go to school in their pyjamas with nothing to eat because nobody did the food shop or made them a packed lunch, nobody goes to the dentist anymore, relatives don't get birthday cards etc etc

It's not as simple as just don't do it because invariably it isn't just the man that will suffer.

Take care of the children but nothing for the DH I assume.

Only cook for yourself and children
Only wash clothes for yourself and children
Only make packed lunches for the children
No one will suffer if they don't get a birthday card

growli · 25/06/2023 20:49

SaladBarNanny · 25/06/2023 20:48

**If I divorced my husband - no one would be on my side. They'd all think I was unreasonable. Apart from my mum. No one would support it and everyone would think I'm a complete bitch and a failure. The only acceptable reasons to leave a marriage are domestic abuse ( physical ) and perhaps cheating.

But of course, just leave your husband. Don't put up with it, right. It's so easy !**

Who are "they" and does their opinion matter ? Sometimes yes, it is as easy as don't put up with it, leave your husband. Easy as in it's a simple concept. Not always easy in practice, usually very brave, and absolutely the right thing to do.

Close family I guess

OP posts:
ThreeLocusts · 25/06/2023 20:54

EbonyRaven · 25/06/2023 13:21

I'm sorry you are in this situation, but not all women have men like this. As a pp said, if you put up with it, and let it happen, and don't put any rules in place, and make things change, you only have yourself to blame. Most men are inherently lazy, and won't do anything if they don't have to. Kick his arse into shape and make him do 50/50.

Newsflash: it's the lazy, strategically incompetent men who are to blame. Women shouldn't have to 'put their foot down' to avoid this sort of outcome. You sound smug and far too ready to blame the victim.

Yea2023 · 25/06/2023 20:55

growli · 25/06/2023 20:19

That's nice. My husband is the kind of husband that makes a mess constantly.

also he complains a lot.

If he cooks, he stomps around the kitchen, being unable to find even the simplest stuff. Then he complains that everything is a fucking mess because of how I keep it. Same goes for anything else he does. I asked him to give the baby a bottle when he wakes up.

I even left the bottle out and all he needed to do was warm the milk.

Queue 5 am, he goes downstairs and is completely unable to find the milk in the fridge. Shouting, ' where is the milk for fuck sake '... wakes up the whole house. Proceeds to find milk, then comes in to the room complaining there's not enough milk and baby now awake. Not even true. Baby just didn't want any more.

What was he like before you had kids? I think this is often the biggest indicator tbh.

DH and I run an Equal household, we both muck in, some stuff I do more (take DC to bed, clean kitchen), some stuff he does more (iron, nursery run).

We’ve always lived like this however.

Allthings · 25/06/2023 20:56

Something up thread reminded me when my grandfather with the more traditional set up retired, he turned to my grandmother and said that as far as he was concerned, she had also now retired from doing the bulk of running the house and they would share household tasks. She has to give instructions in the early days, but they soon got into a routine of sharing things in an equal manner.

Anklespraying · 25/06/2023 20:56

You don't need close family to support it. Divorce is the same as marriage, two people.

You don't need their permission or approval. People that think a woman removing the doormat from her head is a bitch are no support to you anyway.

The opposite, they want you to be a doormat.

Apricotflanday · 25/06/2023 20:57

Yea2023 · 25/06/2023 20:55

What was he like before you had kids? I think this is often the biggest indicator tbh.

DH and I run an Equal household, we both muck in, some stuff I do more (take DC to bed, clean kitchen), some stuff he does more (iron, nursery run).

We’ve always lived like this however.

Often men change after the baby is born, due to mother-issues. Oedipal and all.

Apricotflanday · 25/06/2023 21:00

SouthLondonMum22 · 25/06/2023 20:48

Take care of the children but nothing for the DH I assume.

Only cook for yourself and children
Only wash clothes for yourself and children
Only make packed lunches for the children
No one will suffer if they don't get a birthday card

Trouble is, that still means doing everything for the children and most of the housework.

I really think the best solution would be to go away for a week every month, if possible. Or a fortnight, to give time for him to learn.

Yea2023 · 25/06/2023 21:08

@Apricotflanday Really?

A man who does 50% of housework while together before children just stops doing it when baby is born?

I’ve not seen this happen tbh, but I have seen couples where woman does all the work before DC then wonders why nothing has changed after they are born.

I’m currently pregnant, my DH is easily doing 75%, if/when he is ill or busy spell at work or whatever I do more. I hope he doesn’t change.

SchoolQuestionnaire · 25/06/2023 21:22

Apricotflanday · 25/06/2023 18:54

Now ok...to be honest...I never vacuum more than once a fortnight and I get my ten year old son to do the easier bits...I have never plumped a cushion in my life...the beds get changed if they feel like they might need it (once a fortnight?)...

I would be the spouse not seeing it needs doing and thinking really, if you want to do that much (unnecessary in my view) housework you can. Though I'd be happy to compromise and do it once a week!

The mental and emotional load however, yes, it is huge.

I understand what you’re saying but these aren’t unnecessary tasks, they actually do need to be done. We have two pet dogs and cats so vacuuming really is a daily job. Dd’s bed could possibly be changed fortnightly. Ours and teen ds’s - not a chance. Our sofa is uncomfortable if the cushions aren’t plumped, although I have stopped messing with dh’s side, I now only plump my own!!

I’ve been married 20+ years and can count on one hand the times dh has got the vacuum cleaner out. He has literally never cleaned a bathroom, the fridge, dusted, he doesn’t even clean my car anymore (although he used to). My point is that even if these were monthly tasks, I would still be doing them all. I’m not complaining as I fully accept that I’m allowing this at the minute, but it’s not a case of differing standards. It’s a case of him thinking that because he does more than most men, ie something, our workloads are equal. They are not.

fairywhale · 25/06/2023 21:22

Quite unusual

Pearlsaminga · 25/06/2023 21:23

Apricotflanday · 25/06/2023 21:00

Trouble is, that still means doing everything for the children and most of the housework.

I really think the best solution would be to go away for a week every month, if possible. Or a fortnight, to give time for him to learn.

Might work, OR he'll make sure it backfires, he'll neglect the children so that she doesnt dare leave him in charge of them again.
Once you have children it's too easy to use them for leverage against her.

Cloudburstings · 25/06/2023 21:24

JesusMaryAndJosephAndTheWeeDon · 25/06/2023 18:57

It's maternity leave.

If leave is shared with the husband taking the last 3 or 6 months then women don't return to work with a husband who has been used to having a wife waiting on them and doing all the childcare for the last year. It leads to a more equal share when both are at work.

Personally I think we should have equal parental leave for men and women on a use it or lose it basis that can't be taken concurrently. So men experience a time being the main carer and household manager.

Agree with this.

with DC1 I made sure my DH agreed he’d do a day a week for 6 months when I went back to work.

i went back to a new job when DC1 was seven months after a serious illness that consumed the last few months of my mag leave. It was very very tough.

but. As I’d kept my part of the bargain I held him to his.

he found it tough to say he was doing even though he had more than enough leave and TOIL (v male dominated industry, 10 years ago before shared leave was a thing).

But it was the making of him as a dad.

i also think you have to know it’s partly luck.

Before you have a baby you don’t know the questions to ask them.

and even if I had, I wouldn’t have predicted my DH would turn out to be a sloth father. He is besotted with our children and puts them and us first. No hobbies, few friends. He works too hard but we are his no 1 priority.

i know other men in my family I would have thought would have been better fathers but are a bit crap.

so given it’s a gamble you have to be firm in your expectations. And if they are not met, you have to be prepared to leave and have the means to do so.

i plan to teach my daughter this and help her to be financially independent so she has truly supported choices.

SouthLondonMum22 · 25/06/2023 21:33

Pearlsaminga · 25/06/2023 21:23

Might work, OR he'll make sure it backfires, he'll neglect the children so that she doesnt dare leave him in charge of them again.
Once you have children it's too easy to use them for leverage against her.

Surely you wouldn't stay with someone who would happily neglect their children?

CheeseTouch · 25/06/2023 21:50

I left my ex because there was Ño sharing of the mental load, left all the cleaning to me, despite me working long hours with a lot of responsibility. When I went on strike around the house and stopped sending birthday cards to his family members, he didn’t step up so I left him. Best decision ever…

CheeseTouch · 25/06/2023 21:51

He didn’t neglect the children as in forgetting to feed them, but he didn’t attend a single parents evening or concert again.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.