Child's school asking for biometric data

[DyslexiaNightmare]

Fingerprint data and facial recognition. Is this widespread? How is it even allowed? Children can't consent to giving biometric data. It's not for me to give away. Even if it is to a school.

How difficult will it make things due to the fact that I'm not consenting to this?

*Yet you have no qualms about giving apple/Google... even Mumsnet your personal data? Companies that are known data breachers?

And you happily trust the same school with financial transactions and passport details for trips .... and holding your personal data and your partner's and maybe even your parents name and phone number as well as everything they know about your about your child in a variety of connected systems...

But nooooooo.... A school using a 6digit code based on points of a finger in order to simplify and streamline processes is a step too far?*

Mumsnet and Google have my name and email address. None of my children's data.

The school has our names, addresses and parents names and mobile numbers. That's it. Anything else they held I guess would be for a reason ie medical data in case of emergency.

I'm not saying there's some grand conspiracy theory or that the data will be breached, or even that I would refuse if asked. I'm just saying I've never, ever come across this and it sits a bit uncomfortably with me. I've never consented to any biometric data being given for my children (I've never been asked). I don't use any biometric data for anything either. The only place with my fingerprints was when I went to America and they were taken in ink.

It's ok for people to be a bit hesitant about these things that give them pause for thought, they shouldn't be shamed because they don't immediately want to sign up to something that they don't understand or see the need for. Some people are fine with it and wholeheartedly accept/are in favour of it and that's ok too.

What a lot of ridiculous fuss about nothing 😬🙄😄

Ink versions of fingerprints are more 'dangerous' than the biometric readings in schools. The ink is an actual copy of the fingerprint and is in the government systems.

People don't understand the need, because, in the whole they don't understand what is actually being recorded.

The school holds SO much data on your child, that nobody goes "ah, but what about a data breach " and they have actually zero idea if who they're sharing that data with (many third parties) but here's people not wanting them to have a externally useless piece of information that helps streamline processes in schools for the benefit of everyone.

It seems another way to infantilise and control children. Surely most teenagers are capable of managing £3 in cash for their dinner. I don't recall having cash for lunch or buses causing any particular problems at school. If you occasionally lost or forgot it, that is a perfect example of the kind of minor problem that a 14 year old can deal with by themselves, giving them greater confidence in themselves. No need for mum to know what they are having for dinner every day either.

We are now in the weird situation where teenagers cannot even choose which pair of black school shoes suits them best because schools feel that there is this extreme need to prepare them for the world of work by making them wear a particular style. Yet an area where they can be encouraged to take a small amount of low risk responsibility that genuinely would prepare them for adulthood is removed, for no particular benefit to anyone. Can only assume it's a triumph of marketing by the company that makes these fingerprint systems. I wonder how much they cost compared to a dinner lady manning a till for an hour each day.

They cost less and have more uses than just paying for lunch.

They can use them for library, printing, registration, door access etc.

It actually is useful in the event that your child goes missing, you can see they last accessed the Science Block 3 minutes ago, so you can head straight there instead of sending the duty staff on a wild goose chase etc and they can't access certain areas like staff offices that aren't accidentally left unlocked etc

My DC have used their fingerprints for everything at high school.

So much better and because they can set limits on how much they spend any worries about being manipulated into buying for someone else etc can be prevented.

I don't have any concerns about the systems - they've been running for years and had no adverse effects have come to light.

Surely most teenagers are capable of managing £3 in cash for their dinner.

They are, but what happens when they are bullied into handing that money over to someone else every day? Or even just some of it? Or not necessarily by a bully, just by a friend who doesn't have enough and asks for your child to loan them the money etc ... with cashless systems no child has to have money on them at all so no need to worry about it going missing or giving it to someone else etc.

Then there's the kids on FSM, how do they pay for their lunches? If they don't have money when everyone else does then they are singled out as being different to the other kids - with cashless systems nobody knows who has FSM as they all just use their fingerprint/ID card, the dinner lady at the paypoint will see that the kids on FSM have their FSM voucher debited from their account and kids who aren't get their money debited from their account.

If you want your child to learn about money and responsibility then do that at weekends and after school.

There's the dinner lady on the till. Then there's two people to cash up and reconcile the till. Then two people in finance to lock it up and take it to the bank anywhere up to 10 miles away (could be 2000 x £3 = £6000 a day before breakfast and break are included). £30,000 a week, with all the consequences for their safety and the school as a whole.

How cheap is it now? What about when the 57 year old finance clerk has a gun or knife pointed at her as she walks into the carpark?

Minor risk to a 14 year old on one day, huge risks to the staff.

Mainly in secondary schools the issue is throughput at lunchtime.

Fingerprints are faster than cards.
Cards are way faster than cash.

Parents kick up a fuss about this and then buy them an iPhone with touch or Face ID…

but here's people not wanting them to have a externally useless piece of information that helps streamline processes in schools for the benefit of everyone.

I don't believe it is a useless piece of information.

There are other ways of "streamlining" . E g. a bracelet or swipe card. There are lots of items you have to remember to bring and not lose at school. We should teach children to be responsible and not lose important things!

A bully can't steal your fingerprint but they can make you buy things instead. I don't understand the "nobody can steal their lunch money" argument.

Your fingerprint is unique to you and should be kept safe. We shouldn't get young people used to giving out such personal information just in order to get food.

Parents kick up a fuss about this and then buy them an iPhone with touch or Face ID…

The same parents?

Anyway, you don't have to use the touch ir face id, do you? (Do you?)

It’s completely mainstream. It’s not a fingerprint or picture of their face that anyone can steal. It’s a set of data that a computer recognises as personal. Our school was using this system 7 years ago.

Robbery isn't confined to inside the school gates, you know.

I said externally useless.

What do you imagine a nefarious person in the dark web could actually do with a 6 digit number?

If they had bracelets or swipe cards they'd still have a unique number attached to thei name. Of they lose that object it will be able to be used by anyone. Or it might even have their name, photo and school on it... Even worse if it got lost!!

And again, it's not personal information and it's not just to get food.

No
Bit I'll bet most kids do...

And most kids wil have apps like, WhatsApp, temu, tiktok, Snapchat, Amazon, Google etc on those phones and will have contact details and photos and personal data being shared all over the place.

At our school you can digitally set the limit of spend/day etc to prevent buying for anyone else.

We got asked about this at a meeting last night - it's for paying for meals at secondary school. If we didn't consent it was fine, they'd issue a PIN number instead.

All that does is prevent them spending more than the limit. Doesn't stop bullying into buying food for someone else.

Bulky could easily force the victim to buy something and give it to them and make victim go hungry.