Child's school asking for biometric data

[DyslexiaNightmare]

Fingerprint data and facial recognition. Is this widespread? How is it even allowed? Children can't consent to giving biometric data. It's not for me to give away. Even if it is to a school.

How difficult will it make things due to the fact that I'm not consenting to this?

No, DC is already at secondary. They have a pin instead.

DS1's school used it a decade ago for gaining access to the school building. It's not a new thing.

I refused this for my DC, they have a card which I put money on. Who knows where their personal info may end up if a security breach occurs!

You,'re right. It's weird.

Schools I’ve worked in give kids a card if they or their parents decline the finger print option.

My son was paying for his lunches with his finger 11 years ago.

Paying with finger is popular as school doesn't handle cash, kids don't lose cash and it's quicker than cash and change. They don't take the whole finger - it's something like 5 data points and the data is destroyed when the child leaves the school.

If you don't consent to the finger then they might give your dd a card to pay instead.

What do you think anyone could do with this data?

Wow you guys are living in the future. My kids schools they pay cash (primary) or take cash in and put it on a card (secondary). I would just like the school to progress to the stage of being able to top up the card online so I don’t have to run to the cash
machine every Sunday night 🤦‍♀️

The school aren't likely to do anything with it apart from what they say they're going to use it for. Do you trust your child 's school 's IT systems? If your child 's finger print ends up in "the wrong hands" it could have consequences for them for the rest of their lives.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/oct/18/the-guardian-view-on-biometric-technology-in-schools-watch-closely

My school had fingerprints to pay for meals etc donkeys years ago so it's not a new thing. No idea on facial recognition though

Yes quite.

For me it's a consent issue also. I would be furious if someone put my biometrics onto a third party system without my consent. 4 year olds ate human beings and cannot consent. It's exactly the same.

Then just decline, or is that not an option?

@EnthENd we paid cash at my school in the 1980s too. Except mine got stolen off me mite of the time, so I didn't have lunch. Much harder to loose/steal a finger.

Fingerprint recognition never works for us so they can make exceptions. Think they soon learn who doesn't have fingerprint data.

Lots of students forget their PIN number or someone else steals their money/uses their account.

Using their finger print stops this from happening and a photo comes up showing the student is who they say they are.

All students who have PIN numbers though so you can withdraw your consent.

All students have their photos taken for SIMs anyway.

Our school went back to cards during covid. The cards seem to be more reliable/robust but it’s rarer for someone to lose their finger (only one dc that I know of since dc1 started secondary almost a decade ago).
It doesn’t bother me - they don’t store the actual print (admittedly haven’t read the guardian article - maybe I should be bothered)

@Snowtrails, yeah, still not getting the panic. We have facial recognition technology on our phones, as well as fingerprint recognition technology. The schools don't have fingerprints stored on their systems. Someone mentioned above, it just takes a number of measurements from the prints, which verify it's the right person.
If you have any form of social media, smart phone etc, I'd be far more worried about that than a fingerprint scan.
As always, kids have autonomy in these situations. Our school has an option for a card instead. Kids can choose to use that instead. Fingerprints are easier and don't get lost (and aren't charged for replacements).

So you never consent on your child's behalf for anything? You never had them vaccinated?

I can't see anyone panicking about it.

Yes some phones do have fingerprint and facial recognition options. But they are just options, you don't have to use them.

The mere fact that something exists doesn't mean that it's a good thing.

Are you sure it’s ‘facial recognition’ and not just taking a photo of them for the school system?

My kids schools have fingerprint scanners for school meals, saves all the problems of lunch money being stolen, also it’s better for kids on free school meals as there is no obvious difference so they don’t have to take up a coupon to the till which might be embarrassing.

However there is an option of a lunch card too (which you have to leave a deposit for in case it gets lost).

We have facial recognition for the canteen. Saved germy children touching the same scanner

Our school used fingerprints but switched to facial recognition during the pandemic to avoid the need to wipe the fingerprint scanner between students. They kept the fingerprint scanners to use if the facial recognition cameras are playing up.
The data is used just for paying for dinners. I read the terms and conditions and was happy to consent. The 'third party' mentioned is just the company that maintains the equipment and databases / software for the system. They don't keep full data and adhere to GDPR (obviously). Not 100% safe because nothing ever is but carefully regulated and used by most schools now.

I remember a poor soul in my year would always have his money for lunch and later on his card stolen, teachers never did anything about it at least he'd be able to have something for lunch this way!

Just ask for the alternative if you don't want to consent on their behalf.

I'm 31 and we had the fingerprint scans on the second half of secondary school when it was introduced. I proffered it to cash as friends used to ask me for things and I was a kid who couldn't say no.

Also, it worked just fine. Was quicker than cash. Kids didn't lose it. And I haven't grown up thinking a fingerprint scanner world is normal so don't worry.

So some kids would lose/have stolen/not be given cash for food and have to go hungry, some would spend it in the shop round the corner on chocolate and crisps at 8am and others would just have the ritual humiliation of everybody knowing they were poor?

This is not hyperbole, by the way - I remember both being told in front of everybody that 'your Mummy will have to get a job and pay for your food from now on' when the FSM entitlement hadn't come through on time and then the AAAHHHHHH! YOU'RE POOR! YOU'RE THE POOR KIDS! when queueing in the corridor for 30 minutes to get a manky plastic token to hand over at the till, meaning that if you got there at midday on the dot, you got to the counter at 10 to 1 after then having to queue for the canteen as well.

The fingerprint thing stops other kids spotting their code or stealing their card and using it, the FSM entitlement is invisible and if parenting/financial issues mean they aren't getting any credits on their account, it's easy to see on the software, so neglectful parents can't claim 'I gave her £30 last Monday, it's not my fault if she's spent it on Haribo and Costa on the way in, she's lying about going hungry'.