Child's school asking for biometric data

[DyslexiaNightmare]

Fingerprint data and facial recognition. Is this widespread? How is it even allowed? Children can't consent to giving biometric data. It's not for me to give away. Even if it is to a school.

How difficult will it make things due to the fact that I'm not consenting to this?

At our school they wipe the scanner in between every child.

Op my finger print doesn't work so I have a card to swipe instead.

DD and DS school has their school ID # embroided into their shirts, jumpers, blazer etc on the top left. I don't think the school took biometrics though. Having their IDs on most clothers made it easy to see who owned what and we never had a problem with missing jumpers.

It’s not fingerprint or face, it’s a code generated by 6-8 points on a fingerprint or face. It cannot be reverse engineered and the holders of the code cannot use it for anything else.

DDs school used it for food, library, chemistry labs and computer labs.

I would like to understand why people are against this, genuinely, as I really don’t understand?

Why do parents object to a school holding the points of a fingerprint, but happily give their kids phones with fingerprint scanners. The school already knows so much information about your child as well, names, address, dob, parents detaols, SENCO, FSM information etc...but having a fingerprint key is too much?

You're trusting your phone manufacturer and Google/Apple with the same information.

You. Happily share your personal data with all and sundry.

And you trust this same school with all of your child's personal information such as names, DOB, address, FSM status, exam results which are all held in third party companies...

Maybe.

Maybe not.

It's more than likely that someone somewhere will work out a method if it's in their interest. It's probably already been done.

If data is manipulated then it can certainly be reversed. It would very much be in the police's interest to have even 6-8 data points on fingerprints linked to a name.

Pretty irrelevant when every child has an NHS number, once they are in state education has a UPN, then as soon as they start studying for qualifications gets a UPN and when they are entered for exams gets a UCI.

Then there's the Child Benefit reference number. And passport number for most, complete with biometrics.

This is not a new thing - I left school in the early 2000s and we had fingerprint scanners in the canteen for lunch then.

DDs secondary school uses fingerprint/facial ID for anything where the kids have their own account - lunch account, registration, library, borrowing tech etc - or where access is restricted except to certain groups - computer rooms, sixth form areas etc.

I don't see the issue with it, it means DD doesn't have to worry about taking a card/money to school for lunches and nobody can use her account for anything like they could if it was just a card/PIN.

TeenDivided Today 06:15

My DB worked on this kind of technology for a while. There really is not an issue, the data can't be back engineered.

I don't know about that. When the Government decided to sell all NHS data to research companies, the assured people that it would be impossible to identify people from the data.

Experts volunteered to explain how it was impossible, on telly and writing to the papers.

Other experts then explained exactly how it could be done and possibly the Guardian had one in, who demonstrated just how it could be done.

Was that a genuine reason? In what way would she be hindered?

Really not sure if I'm misunderstanding a stupid teenage comment 😀

@Elphame “If data is manipulated then it can certainly be reversed. It would very much be in the police's interest to have even 6-8 data points on fingerprints linked to a name”

it’s my understanding that the police in UK need 16 points of comparison and that under that cannot be used in law. Is that not the case? (We ‘lost’ a clear suspect and I fucking know he did it because the fingerprints weren’t clear cut, 3 smudges that added up to more than 16, but couldn’t be accepted).

No knocking you but I also cannot see how this can be reversed, especially when the code issued in place of the 6 points is also randomly generated.

I think that's different.
You could be able to identify someone from a fingerprint scan - but could you use a finger print scan elsewhere to try to impersonate someone?

Can you generate a fake fingerprint to gain access to something?

Do you know how much data the school already has on you and who can access it?

At my school the registers are online, through this I can see the name, address, date of birth of every child in my class. I can see their next of kin contact details. Through the CPOMS system (which is a system we use for storing concerns) I can see every single contact a child has had with social services, every letter sent to an outside agency, every police report about their address that has come to the school. I can see every single worry about the child that anyone in the school has had for their entire school career.

If I was of a mind to I could print this off, I could screen shot it, I could write it all down. I could send this information to anyone. Yes I’ve gone through all the usual screening that people have before working with children, but that just means someone hasn’t been caught.

But no, get worried about a 6 point fingerprint scan that unlocks a code and you can’t do anything with.

cakeorwine · Today 09:55

You could be able to identify someone from a fingerprint scan - but could you use a finger print scan elsewhere to try to impersonate someone? Can you generate a fake fingerprint to gain access to something?

I've honestly got no idea! My point was that Government and organisations can and do trot out experts to explain how safe a piece of technology is and then someone shows that it's wide open. Electronically scannable passports were cracked before they'd been issued and the Passport Agency still went ahead with them.

Anyway, my daughter gives her name and class number, that's it.

Once upon a time, like 30 years ago when we moved her, the rural comp behind was pretty much open access. If Mrs B, who worked there, forgot something I could take it to her room without let/hindrance. The playing field was a piece of open space people used for family kick arounds etc.

FF to now and it's secured like a defence factory.

Welcome to 'safeguarding'.

Yes. Let’s go back to the day when random people could just wander into a school building. It’s PC gone mad.

It's got a bit silly TBH. A strange adult, or even adolescent non pupil, on the corridors in my Comprehensive in 1976 would have been challenged, just as people out of place in my office would.

It was difficult enough going for a pee unchellenged as a pupil :0P

Well, unfortunately schools are targets of not very nice people...ever heard of Dunblane...?

Again... Never heard of Dunblane .... blakenhall...?

Would gates have stopped Dunblane?

I just thing we've swung way to far in the opposite direction c/p to my own/my kids time.

The reason that people remember Dunbkane is partly because of its absolute rarity it's not a reason for schools to have prison level security

Exactly, maybe smipers in turrets might help, not fences and doors

Well, it's what prompted the increased security.

And no doubt there's many many children at risk that need protection from potential abduction.

There's also many many children that are "flight risks".

Locked doors and gates may have stopped it yes. And blakenhall.

If you're happy for your kids to be in a building where anyone can wander in and children could wander it, then great.

I have literally zero problem with The Kremlin knowing my son has bought a pasta pot every day for the last 4 years. My only concern is that they would try to lure him into becoming an enemy agent with a bottle of Radnor and a cookie.