To think that people like anti-abortionist Kristan Hawkins are the enemy of women and feminism everywhere

[Purplefoxes]

Maybe extreme but..I was just reading this BBC article (link below) on Kristan Hawkins and it made my blood boil as I am pro choice. She is the woman from the US organisation Students for Life of America and has been instrumental in over turning Roe v Wade. She is now on the back of this 'success' campaigning for total abortion ban across America . The overturning of Roe V Wade is a decision which will likely result in the death or debilitation of many pregnant women who either cannot access much needed abortions for health reasons or try to access back street illegal abortions or could even commit suicide as a result. Not to mention there could be many unwanted children dumped into the care system or brought up in abusive environments. I just cannot fathom why anyone, let alone a woman would do this. I'm sure if it was one of her kids who was pregnant and needed a medical abortion to save their life she'd change her tune! How blinkered does a person have to be to not think of the impact of banning abortion on both women and children! And how has such medieval policy been allowed to happen in modern day America..could this happen in the UK?! Are we losing our rights as women? When did the life of a fetus become more important than the life of its mother?

BBC article

Yeah as I typed that you were pro life MrsLully I did think that you were no such thing. It is the wrong phrase. I also didn’t comment on your critical thinking skills - it was you who suggested I needed to challenge my thinking.

Not sure what slogans you keep hearing when you read my posts - I feel like that is what you are trying to reduce any mention of women’s vulnerability to so you can more easily dismiss it.

This needs repeated again. And again. And again because pro-lifers will never, ever accept this simple fact.

Pro-life my fucking arse. They don't give a shit about the lives of the women carrying the "unborn children". They also don't give a fuck about the children after they are born. They couldn't give a crap about the thousands of women who die each year because they don't have access to safe abortions, and they certainly don't care about the unwanted or unsupported kids abandoned to the care system either.

It's entirely about punishing women who have been "careless" or "stupid" enough to get themselves into a position where they might need an abortion. Fucking own it.

@Lwrenagain that's not an abortion. You didn't choose to kill your baby, you had a medical procedure to ensure that your life could be saved. Your baby died as a result of that medical procedure.
I can't believe I have to type this, what an awful thing you had to go through, and I'm sorry you felt like you had to use it to make some point to strangers on the internet. Im sure you are able to tell the difference between what you went through and 99% of abortions, those that are carried out just because the baby is not wanted for one reason or another.
I'm so sorry for your loss.

I’m laughing at you, although admittedly I am working on the assumption that you are in fact an individual, and not plugged into some great medical hive mind. I very much doubt you would get your hands on me or any of my family members, thankfully.

Debating what the fetus is or isn’t is a sideshow. The main point is that abortion will happen regardless of the status of the baby/fetus/Nigel, and all that criminalizing it achieves is injured and dead women.

I do not dismiss women's vulnerabilities, I do point out that the babies they carry are plenty vulnerable too, that's all.

Where do you get that statistic from, that 99% of abortions are carried out just because the baby is not wanted for one reason or another?

I don't think you actually read my post where I said I am AGAINST criminalising abortion.

I am assuming personally attacking strangers makes you feel better? Happy to take your insults if it makes you feel better

sadly in my specialty, patients don't have a choice as I am only involved in critical situations or when patients are unconscious. so far no complaints apart from a few racist patients who didn't want to be taken care of by a p word. but generally I am happy to carry on caring for them even when they are verbally or even physically abusive. so don't worry, even if I come across you and you carry on making personal comments without knowing a thing about me, you will only ever get the best care. lots of love. ps will not be responding to any further comments from you, because well... I just don't feel like it.

But are you able to acknowledge that banning abortion would not make things better, and would in fact make things worse? More women dead because of illegal abortions. More women dead because of complications of pregnancy not being resolved because doctors are afraid to break abortion laws. More women imprisoned for having a natural miscarriage. Are you truly saying all of that is better than what we have now? I think we're now up to three deaths in Poland because of its restrictions on abortion.

@tt9 I am glad you are against criminalising abortion, but you do need to be precise in how you communicate your point of view.

@MrsLully I thank you sincerely for your kind words. 💐

However, I still chose to end the life of my pregnancy, it was still a termination.
Regardless of the reason, I did make the choice.
If we take away the choice of termination for any reason, women will die.
Just because my reasons were medical, I still did the very thing someone who's reasons may be something as simple as "bad timing", and both reasons are acceptable. No woman should be forced into carrying a baby, for any reason.

@Recoveringcynic "It must be blissful to be so ignorant."

It must be blissful to be so full of yourself. You accuse me of lacking empathy and not once you've mention the baby in the equation when taking about this.
You know nothing about my life or my struggles.

How naive is it to think that if you don't have a merry little life where everything is how it's supposed to be it would be better to just not exist at all. Again, feel free to think that for yourself, but don't speak for those who don't get a chance to try their hand at life. Life is tough, life isn't fair. Duh. But with life comes potential, with death that's all there is. Don't go around pretending to have the moral high ground because you are SO empathetic you'd rather someone die than struggle.

You’re unlikely to because, assuming you work in British healthcare, I don’t utilize the medical services you work for, regardless of prospective level of emergency.

I feel fine as it tbh, can’t say I’m particularly striving to improve my mood.

It’s never pro-life. It’s forced birthers.

I don't believe it's the same thing, sorry.
In any case, as I've said before, I don't think abortion should be banned in all cases, so even if you think that what you had was an abortion you would have been one of those exceptions. Ectopic pregnancies are no joke, I'm glad you were able to get proper medical care and are here to tell the tale.

I do believe that as a society we need to have a wider discussion about sex, consent and consequences. It's sad when the only solution to a genuine problem has a to be so damned tragic.

Again, so sorry for your loss.

@Soubriquet I agree, but I'm trying very hard to remain civil.

While I'm here, can I have an answer to the question I have now asked twice concerning the acceptable level of deaths from illegal abortions for those on this thread who call themselves 'pro life'? Not to mention all the other consequences I have listed that would (and do, and have) come from making all abortion illegal?

Indeed Mrs Lully you do have to decide which you prioritise - the woman or her dependent. I support the woman and the choices she makes for herself. The philosophical position that the woman comes first really matters to me. The alternative is horrific. I am very happy for you to never chose a termination, I didn’t chose a termination but I would support any woman who wants or needs to do so because I support women’s rights. That contextually our society has a huge way to go before every child is even adequately looked after does suggest that we still need to raise our game in relation to how we look after our living children.

I don't mention the 'baby' as you call it because the baby cannot survive without the mother. It is essentially parasitic until the legal limit for abortions in the UK. My view is nothing to do with being 'full of myself', it is fortunately the view of most civilised countries across the world - abortion is healthcare. You are the one at odds here.

My empathy is with the women forced to birth babies they do not want and/or unable to look after. My view is that your empathy with a 'potential life' over and above those women is misplaced. I personally think that bringing a child into the world is a huge responsibility- people agonise over when and if to have children because they want them to have the best life possible. Nobody wants to cause unecessary suffering just because 'life is unfair'. Except your ilk.

I have a theory about extreme pro lifers.
Years ago i used to work with one and became quite close to the point she told me she had a abortion at 13 ish wks. Which is why she became so pro life due to the guilt presumably. I wonder how common her story is ?

I wouldn't support every woman in every circumstance, no. I wouldn't put the feelings of a woman over the life of a baby, not as a given. Her feelings might change, but that life is lost forever. I can accept that sometimes it needs to be done, but I hate that it does because I will not trivialise the life that's being stolen. Call me dramatic if you wish.
If we are talking about the life of the mother over the life of her baby you already know what I think. Obviously whatever medical procedure has to take place in order for the mother to live has to be carried out regardless of the baby's outcome.

What we need is more celibacy and same sex relationships. Abortion is an issue created by straight, sexually active people.

Or maybe they just happen to have an opinion that's different to yours. Wild, I know 🤣

So basically if a woman has an abortion for a reason you think is okay it's a medical procedure. If she has one for a reason you think isn't okay, it's stealing a baby's life.

It's the same process with the same outcome. How do you get to a place where you think you can judge when that same process and same outcome is or isn't okay?

@Recoveringcynic "he baby cannot survive without the mother. It is essentially parasitic"

Oh man I used to spout shit like this when I was 17 and started uni. I though I was so cool 🤣

In all abortions at least one person dies. That's sad. That's the gist of what I'm saying. Let's just stop. I don't think we are ever going to meet anywhere. You remind me of a younger, very full of myself me. I would have been impossible to talk to then, because I didn't know enough to know how wrong I was.

Thankfully in countries like the UK whether you support a woman's right to an abortion is irrelevant.

Why are you so arrogant to think that your opinion matters more than the woman who has to carry the unwanted baby to term and care for it afterwards?