Scared about raising a boy

[Worriedbythestateoftheworld]

I've recently found out I'm having a baby boy. I already have 3 daughters and I was overjoyed when I found out (so not a gender disappointment thread). However I've found the excitement has warn off and I know feel scared of getting this right.

I'm a regular on mn (though name changed for this post) and day in day out there are hundreds of threads about horrible, abusive, lazy etc men hurting and ruining the lives of women. There are so many, I think, well they can't all have suffered terrible childhoods surely? And that's what scares me, how do I ensure I don't raise a boy to become another man who abuses and hurts women? I feel I'm a good parent, but even if I do everything I can 'right' is he still likely to become an abuser?

I feel so scared I'm going to get it wrong. Or no matter what I do, it'll still happen.

Does anybody else feel like this? I don't feel this way with my daughters - though do worry about the world they are growing up into, but not about them personally growing up to be abusive to others.

My husband isn't abusive, nor my brother, dad, grandad etc so I know good men are out there.

Yes, bring them up like your girls. See what he needs and respond accordingly.
Don't let anyone dismiss his feelings or expect him to 'man up' when he needs comforting. When children feel validated and have their needs met, they'll grow up more secure and well adjusted.

Take him out every day. Let him run off steam and be active.

Give him chores and learn responsibility.

Life is greater than Mn and most women you speak to don't share this view or experience.

I think this is a bit of an over simplified take on this. More than 90% of violent crime is carried out by males. It's perfectly reasonable for a soon to be parent to have a think about how they can best support a boy to grow up to be a good man, who isn't part of the problem.

Nobody is saying all men are bad.

I think it's a thoughtful and responsible thing to think about how your children may need to be guided into adulthood in the right way for them as individuals, taking into account lots of factors just one of which is their sex.

I'm expecting a boy soon and am already prepared to butt heads with many people in my family, because I will be raising him in the exact way I raised my daughter. I don't raise children based on gender conformation, I raise them to be decent, resilient, empathetic human beings.

One of my biggest pet peeves is "boys will be boys" which in my opinion promotes notions of toxic masculinity in young boys, and makes excuses for behaviour that would never be acceptable in girls.

The example boys are being set by family members is also very important, we lead by example. Children learn what they live, and live what they learn. So if they are around toxic masculine figures then that is what they learn.

Just raise your boy as you do your girls, be prepared to tell family members to piss off if they encourage things you don't like.

I know people think that men have all the power but I also see the ways in which boys and men suffer. For example, boys are more likely to fail at school. Boys are more likely to bottle up their feelings and suffer mental health. Men are more likely to commit suicide.
So yes, I absolutely want to raise my son to treat women with respect and view them as equals. I also want to raise him to succeed at school, to feel he can express his emotions. To be able to seek help if he's suffering from depression etc. My son's very sensitive and fragile in some ways. I don't worry about him growing up to be an abuser. I worry about him not being resilient against life's knocks.

"I know people think that men have all the power but I also see the ways in which boys and men suffer"

Yes. A better society benefits everyone. And in order to have a better society we need to think about how we raise our boys. And carrying on the way we're doing now obviously isn't working.

I really don't understand the "raise your boys the same as you raise your girls." I don't see how that would work. Boys and girls face very different societal pressures and expectations. They have to be guided to meet them in different ways.

I had a girl after 3 boys and what I found was that it wasn't that different and actually my girl was similar in personality to my 2nd son and the other boys were the same.

Not really, we just guide our kids to meet societal pressures full stop.

Well I think you're right to be thinking about this given how the majority of violent crimes against woman are committed by men who were known to them.

Male violence is a huge issue across the world and there isn't enough being done about it in terms of raising boys not to abuse their physical power and hurt girls and women in an attempt to feel better/gain control/regulate themselves. But there won't be until it's a problem that impacts men more than women.

You're also on a forum primarily where women post, our experiences don't speak for the majority.

Also look at the statistics for male suicide and stop viewing your child as an abuser before he's even born......every child needs a rounded upbringing, they need to be taught to be independent in a safe way and to be considerate of others. They need encouragement succeed and to accept that sometimes they can't and being OK is good enough. They need to consider the feelings of others and have parents who talk about emotions and how to process them. They need to learn to be responsible for their own actions and any impact that can have, and we also should show that we're responsible for our own actions and emotions.

That's all there is to it.

@MissyB1 "Not really, we just guide our kids to meet societal pressures full stop."

Right. So you're not concerned that those pressures lead to men committing over 90% of violent crime and lead to 77% of all people dying through suicide being men?

Don't confuse toxic masculinity with masculinity. I was surprised that a friend with a Dd told me that she told her Dd to stay away from 'typical' boys as they were likely to be toxic.
It's a really awful message.

this.

I have two brothers and almost all of my family members are male. There aren't any woman hating men in my family. In this world there are nasty men and nasty women. Just raise your children as equals and encourage them to respect one another. Women on Mumsnet seem to meet one bad man and become man haters and assume all men are evil rapists and domestic abusers. I assume that you're doing a great job with your daughters and it shouldn't be much different with your son 😊

"Don't confuse toxic masculinity with masculinity. I was surprised that a friend with a Dd told me that she told her Dd to stay away from 'typical' boys as they were likely to be toxic.
It's a really awful message."

Absolutely. That's why we need to address societal pressures on boys and girls differently. Many people-including very many boys are equating toxic masculinity with masculinity, which is damaging for everyone. This is something that has to be addressed with boys as a matter of urgency.

@SunnySun1 "Women on Mumsnet seem to meet one bad man and be come man haters and assume all men are"
I'm pretty sure there are no man haters on this thread. That's why we're trying to discuss ways forward to make things better for everyone.

I have 2 boys and a girl. My boys are wonderful young men. Kind thoughtful funny and a total pleasure. My DD is lovely too but boy is she hard work and more complicated. I think boys are the best

I'd agree. While the sentiment behind it is a good one, it makes me feel really uncomfortable the way you've written it, for some reason. I think it sounds like an unhealthy way of thinking of an unborn baby.

This is a rare, refreshing thread. Quite a lot of threads recently have been rather toxic. As long as children have good role models (men and women) and both sexes learn to respect one another then the world will be a better place.

Read Raising Boys by Steve Biddulph. I only have sisters and it helped me understand what boys need growing up to be balanced, well rounded individuals. Mine are 18 and 22 now and I like to think they’re very decent human beings!

@SunnySun1 "This is a rare, refreshing thread. Quite a lot of threads recently have been rather toxic."

I must miss these toxic threads. People are always talking about them, but they never seem to be able to link to them. Kind of like Yetis....

I'm pregnant with a boy, and my predominant annoyance is that there are SO MANY gendered expectations being placed on him already by my in laws.

He's lazy like a boy when he doesn't move.
He's going to be a footballer when he does kick.
I mustn't let him be clingy.
Isn't it nice for my husband to have a son? (what, for my super-unmasculine husband to have to model your weirdo ideas of maleness?)

Poor little sod isn't even a foot long and people have decided who he is because of his genitals.

The best thing you can do for your son is to resist labels other people attach to him and learn and help him become the best version of himself.

there are hundreds of threads about horrible, abusive, lazy etc men hurting and ruining the lives of women.

They're the ones that get posted about. Decent husbands and fathers not so much. In the same way as newspapers never publish good news.

I'm with you OP. My son is a white male and it's hugely important to me that he can see the doors that will open for him that stay closed to other people.

A few examples of things we've talked about (barely scratching the surface here)...

Movies:

• The Bechdel Test
• The Gaze
• The trope of the Magical Negro

Money & Marketing

• The pay differences between white men and pretty much everyone else.
• How differently investors speak to men vs women (women are overwhelmingly asked about how they will mitigate risk while men are overwhelmingly encouraged to talk about forecasted growth)
• The Pink Tax in shops, the very different marketing of gendered toys, and the different content of magazines marketed to girls vs boys.

Sex and Relationships:
This one is too big to summarise, we've covered so much ground. One memorable conversation was after he overheard me casually say to my husband that any man who says nothing against a rape joke is partially responsible for rape.

I know all this sounds really heavy. It has to be, it's really heavy growing up as a woman and ESPECIALLY heavy growing up as a black woman, for example. The least my lovely son can do is walk around with open eyes. If that's the worst that ever happens to him he'll still have a better life than most people.