Scared about raising a boy

[Worriedbythestateoftheworld]

I've recently found out I'm having a baby boy. I already have 3 daughters and I was overjoyed when I found out (so not a gender disappointment thread). However I've found the excitement has warn off and I know feel scared of getting this right.

I'm a regular on mn (though name changed for this post) and day in day out there are hundreds of threads about horrible, abusive, lazy etc men hurting and ruining the lives of women. There are so many, I think, well they can't all have suffered terrible childhoods surely? And that's what scares me, how do I ensure I don't raise a boy to become another man who abuses and hurts women? I feel I'm a good parent, but even if I do everything I can 'right' is he still likely to become an abuser?

I feel so scared I'm going to get it wrong. Or no matter what I do, it'll still happen.

Does anybody else feel like this? I don't feel this way with my daughters - though do worry about the world they are growing up into, but not about them personally growing up to be abusive to others.

My husband isn't abusive, nor my brother, dad, grandad etc so I know good men are out there.

I'm a regular on mn (though name changed for this post) and day in day out there are hundreds of threads about horrible, abusive, lazy etc men hurting and ruining the lives of women.

Also remember that people don't post of the husbands and fathers that get on and do the job and behave as normal human beings. What you see is a subset !

After spending half an hour on Mumsnet it's easy to come away with the feeling that all men are nasty, controlling, abusive, unfaithful bastards! However, I only have to step out in to the real world or think about the men I've known throughout life to realise that they're nearly all nice, kind, interesting people.
Yes I've met some bastards in my time but thankfully they're in the minority. I've also met some nasty women. I have a loving son and I'm raising him exactly the same way I raise my daughter - to be kind and considerate to others. I thinks it's much more helpful to see people as individuals, rather than just "a boy" or "a girl".

As long as you treat him the same it’ll be fine. I still hold resentment that my brother could lie in bed of a Saturday watching Tiswas when my sister and I cleaned and helped mum with the Twin Tub etc. I also recall cooking his tea before he went to football each Tuesday when mum was still at work.

I'm having a daughter after 3 sons and whilst I'm super excited to meet her, I'm also a bit worried about raising a girl.
It's just totally out of my comfort zone even if everyone says I'll be fine but I'm over thinking everything.
How unlike a pregnant woman, to overthink everything 😂

Have you raised your daughters with all the social and practical skills they'll need to hold down a job, make a living, make friends, run a home and family , respect and talk to and share tasks with friends and the people they love?

Just do the same for your son and he'll be fine, like my husband and our sons.

We do nobody -especially our sons- any favours by pretending that there is no problem with masculinity in the world, and to refuse to think about potential solutions.

I second this. I have a DS 17m and was similarly worried - my DH has 2 late teenage boys already who are lovely young men and he gained a lot from reading Bidulph books, learning about manhood and fatherhood. They’re on my ‘to read’ list too!

I believe it’s important to know your most important role as a mother, giving love and safe secure attachment (in the younger years especially) and when you need external role models. The men in his life, especially when he hits puberty, will become hugely important- its great that you say you have lovely male relatives.

At the end of the day we can only do our best and we are bound to mess up at least a little bit. Your child will be their own person and I’m sure he will be brilliant x

This. Your boy will grow up seeing good men behaving well. So he'll grow up to be a good man.

This. I do think it's important that boys have strong role models. Obviously you'll do your part too, just raise him to be a good person, to respect and be kind to people.

@CurlewKate and your solutions are?

Well, I'd say you'r half way there already because just the fact that you're thinking about it means that you're aware of the issues.

I immediately distance myself from people who, seeing a bunch of boys fighting and pummelling each other go with the "oooh, boys will be boys" mindset. I am not bringing up DS that way and I'm not interested in hanging out with people who think that's normal.

I have also received a few odd looks becuase I started teaching Ds about consent when he was very young. Consent isn't just about sex, but about the reality that he is bigger and stronger than other people so he doesn't get to touch them or hit them or push them or expect them to do things just because he can make them.

Avoid gender stereotypes and stick with the positive role models you have an you'll be fine. So will he.

Boys need to see dads or other role models cooking, cleaning and changing nappies - if not as much, then at least some of the time. They need to see mums working at least at some point in their childhood, and having a full say in family finances and decision making. They need to see respect and decent and responsible behaviour- my DSs have seen all that and as far as I can tell they treat other people with respect.

Boys are great !

Agree with giving the ‘boys will be boys’ nonsense short shrift. You’ll hear it when you start going to toddler groups and soft play; “Oh he’s such a boy” as a parent/grandparent looks on indulgently as their child throws toys or barges past smaller children. Call it out every single time.

I also agree with pps that good male role models who talk to him about kindness and respect, and allow him show emotion are absolutely key.

Practical solutions?

Basically counteract sexist media stereotypes in age appropriate ways

eg - Paw Patrol - weak female characters - address this from the start
Bossy boy characters - point it out
Egregious adverts that target girls - criticise the ads in age appropriate ways

Never say things like 'help mummy tidy up' - say instead, 'you need to tidy up. I will give you a hand'

Never ever couch little chores as 'helping mummy' - those chores are an expected contribution to the household - everybody pitches in

I could go on and on but basically counteract the everyday sexism with language and explanations - this applies to both girls and boys btw

And before the Namalt brigade have a meltdown - yes, i do this with my grandkids - it works!

Just in case anyone's interested, here's a few things men can do to help make a better world for everyone.

1.Take full responsibility for their fair share of domestic work and childcare.

1. Challenge sexist/ misogynist/violent talk and behaviour every time they see it and wherever they see it
2. Stop using prostituted women.
3. Challenge sexist work practices-for example making sure that any panel, board or committee they are on at least represents the sex balance of the organization - if necessary refusing to go on it if it isn't.
4. Stop watching porn.
5. Stop buying and playing sexist video games, and films that don't pass the Bedschel test.

7)Think about how they parent their boys, and remember that they are the next generation of men. And that they are the man their children will learn by about relationships from. 8) Make sure that they acknowledge, and let their children see them acknowledge, the contribution their wife or partner makes to the family. This is particularly important when she is a SAHP

Exactly the same values as your daughter's. Everyone respects each other and listens, everyone does chores everyone learns to cook no gender roles.

Stay away from mumsnet some posers are utterly vile about men and boys even little boys

Good list from CurlewKate. I’d comment that it’s difficult to avoid films that don’t pass the Bechdel test, especially as they get older, so it’s important to talk about it and point out how films fail.

When we showed the dc the Lord of the Rings films, Dh was quick to say to the kids “Look, where are the women?!” and explained about the Bechdel test, and how a lot of (older) sci-fi and fantasy is horribly sexist. The found the whole conversation really interesting and started assessing films on that basis themselves. I think this was actually more useful than avoiding such films altogether.

This is largely out of your hands. That’s a controversial thing to say but how your son grows up is mostly to do with how you role model in your family and that is an unconscious drip-drip over time. If the men in his life are supportive and positive toward women he will be too.

What you can do is encourage him to be kind and demonstrate empathy to his sisters (and vice versa), don’t treat domestic work as a female domain, teach independence and don’t baby him as he grows older.

You sound very thoughtful so I think you (and he) will be grand.

And yet here you are…

Plenty of posts about nightmare abusive mothers, crazy manipulative MILs, batshit DSis and SILs!

Or do not read those posts?

Its not just males who are problematic.

I forgot psychotic gaslighting female colleagues and bosses and uncaring friends

I've got two DS. Both very different in terms of their nature. The male role models in their lives (father, cousins, uncles etc) are involved and definitely not abusive.

My belief is communication is key, we discuss topics, challenge behaviours and comments that might be made.

I hope that they see the dynamic between me and their Dad.. Between their auntie and uncle.. All hardworking, respectful and equal in matters... and that for them it is the norm.

I agree with PP that people often post when there is a problem, so that will be skewed (much like when we see bad restaurant/hotel reviews etc.. Much more likely to take action to complain then say that everything was fine)

Nope I didn't worry about this. You sound like you have anxiety, probably best to speak to your GP. My ds's are at Uni and secondary now and they are lovely boys - I never had these concerns.

@TonTonMacoute "Its not just males who are problematic."

Of course it isn't. But we live in a society which has historically favoured and given power and control to men. We still have to redress that balance in many big and little ways. I think that's what we're talking about here.