Scared about raising a boy

[Worriedbythestateoftheworld]

I've recently found out I'm having a baby boy. I already have 3 daughters and I was overjoyed when I found out (so not a gender disappointment thread). However I've found the excitement has warn off and I know feel scared of getting this right.

I'm a regular on mn (though name changed for this post) and day in day out there are hundreds of threads about horrible, abusive, lazy etc men hurting and ruining the lives of women. There are so many, I think, well they can't all have suffered terrible childhoods surely? And that's what scares me, how do I ensure I don't raise a boy to become another man who abuses and hurts women? I feel I'm a good parent, but even if I do everything I can 'right' is he still likely to become an abuser?

I feel so scared I'm going to get it wrong. Or no matter what I do, it'll still happen.

Does anybody else feel like this? I don't feel this way with my daughters - though do worry about the world they are growing up into, but not about them personally growing up to be abusive to others.

My husband isn't abusive, nor my brother, dad, grandad etc so I know good men are out there.

100% this. I was a single mum at 16, ds dad and that side didn’t have anything to with him(actually a relief tbf or god knows how he would have turned out )but i had my dad, my stepdad, brothers and really good male friends around. Ds is almost 19 now and is the perfect little gent. Works, Helps round the house, plays with his wee brothers, likes a drink with friends at the weekend but they always make sure the girls in the group are ok when their out and that they get home ok. Even as a younger teen if one of the girls got really drunk down the woods or where ever they were he would walk them home or bring them to mine to phone there mums to collect them.

@Oblomov23 "You sound like you have anxiety, probably best to speak to your GP."
You do realise that women have been told they are mentally unstable for having concerns about male behaviour for a very long time....

Why would you raise them differently to your daughters? 🤔 Sorry I never get it when people come out with this basically sexiest crap. Just raise all your kids to be good people - I have 3 boys and that’s what I did.

Oh and maybe it’s just me but I found Steve Biddulphs book patronising with a tendency to stereotype.

My husband does his bit in the house, his share of the mental load and looking after them when they are sick.

My sons, 14&12 can cook, clean, use the washer etc. the keep their rooms and house tidy. They are part of a family and we all do our bit, they don't have to be asked.

We also talk about all the issues that worry you. Obviously I have no idea what they will be like as independent adults, but I'm doing my best!

I have a little boy and I felt similarly in the responsibility of raising a good man who's aware of his privilege and respectful to women. My dh is very respectful towards me and we split things in the home equally. I work hard to practice consent and bodily respect with my son even though he's only little at the moment. We are careful about the books we read him and are working on curating a library of books that show strong girls and respect and other healthy messages. And the rest will come with time. I'm hoping to raise him so he feels about to chat with me about things and we can take it as it comes. His dad is very on board and will be able to help foster good debates and conversation and give encouragement as well. The rest will be modeled good behaviour and monitoring what he's watching online and on TV and talking about it rather than just banning it. When he gets old enough we'll talk about what qualities he'll want in a partner and what those look like in reality and what qualities he would need to bring to the table as well to be a good partner. Other than that I think we need to take it as it comes and try to challenge things we see that are problematic either at the time or talk them through later.

No, Bob is not responsible for Clive’s behaviour, but if he sees that Clive’s behaviour is problematic/abusive/misogynistic and ignores it then he is part of the problem. My son would, and has, told his mates off for slagging off women. The people best placed to tell an adult man that his behaviour is unacceptable are his mates. If Clive’s being a creep then of course Bob should tell him!

@MissyB1 "Why would you raise them differently to your daughters? 🤔 Sorry I never get it when people come out with this basically sexiest crap."

Because we currently live in a society that socialises boys and girls differently, and has different rules and expectations for men and women. Something has to be going wrong somewhere to mean that over 90% of violence is committed by men and 77% of the people who die by suicide are men. Doesn't that look like something we should be thinking about, not dismissing as "sexist crap"?

@MissyB1 Because boys and girls are treated differently in the world. Boys need to be treated differently so they can understand the power they naturally hold and how to not misuse that power subconsciously. Its not about giving different opportunities, its about teaching them to be respectful and mindful of the fact they will have different walks through the world and why its important that they are an active ally to girls and women.

The fact you are worrying about this is a great sign.

I have 2 boys, my eldest is 17 and he’s really involved in mentoring/training etc with younger kids to address issues with sec based violence as it starts young and escalates. I’m so proud of him being part of the solution and not the problem. But as others have said your husband and other males round him will have an impact. My husband and my dad are both gentle, quiet people, no men will be men or boorish/sexist attitudes and that has helped too I think

My two sons are both young adults now, and l refused to come on this forum until recently because of the attitude on here towards males. So my advice would be trust your own instincts and stay off here. I only look at the gardening and litter tray threads, rest of it is very damaging and unhealthy.

I did that by raising them to be decent people, decent to girls/ women/ boys /men. They do understand about the challenges that women/ vunerable/ disabled/disadvantaged/ and minorities face. Because part of being a decent person means having an awareness of all those things. I expect parents to teach that awareness to all their kids of both sexes.

Actually Christ YES. Behind every rape is a rape joke repeated a hundred times. Behind every DM incident are a hundred men excusing it with, "bet she deserved it"
That's 'how the patriarchy works' 101.

@MissyB1 "Because part of being a decent person means having an awareness of all those things."

I agree. But it's also important to look at your own place in the world and the expectations and pressures on you. And those are different for men and boys, and women and girls.

None so deaf as those who don't want to hear.

@GivenUpOnOrdinary Have you seen any negative attitudes about men and boys on this thread?

I’m bringing 3 boys and 1 girl up. Their dad isn’t a good example to them and I do worry about how they will turn out because of him. Luckily my dad is an excellent male role model to them and my dad is also very involved in their lives, so I hope the influence my dad brings cancels out everything they see in their dad.

I’m also a single mum and provide a stable happy home for them. I just hope that my own influence can show my boys how to be decent men and to have respect for women.

I do get your worry OP. But I think if they’re brought up right and have the right influences whilst growing up, you’re doing all the things you should be doing to bring up a decent man of the future. Congratulations on your lovely baby boy 💐.

I'm always a bit bemused by the "just bring the boys and girls up the same way" argument. It's not like you're bringing them up in a vacuum - there are personal, familial and societal expectations and assumptions whether we like it or not. Plus the stark reality that girls and boys ARE different and will have to navigate different things. So of course you can't bring them up identically.

we actively try to teach girls to be strong, to be aware, to understand they can do anything etc. That's to overcome societal expectations etc.

So we do have to do the same for the boys. Actively teach them how not to use their size/strength/priviledge in a way that disadvantages others. Show them how not to be complacent, how not to make assumptions, how to be gentle etc.

I think, well they can't all have suffered terrible childhoods surely?

I thin you would be surprised at the amount of shit role models out there for males.

The cycle just repeats.

You'll be sound OP - lots of decent males in your sons life.

I regularly see posts on here where the OP has a sibling who is treated very differently. For example OPs whose ILs treat their daughter's children differently to their son's children or family gatherings where men relax while women work in the kitchen. Treating your children differently will increase the likelihood of developing a sense of entitlement

"Treating your children differently will increase the likelihood of developing a sense of entitlement"

No. Treating your children unequally will do that. Treating them differently is acknowledging their individuality.

@BoohooWoohoo I think you missed the point of my post completely.

I'm not saying that we should treat girls and boys different so that we can reinforce gender stereotypes. Doh. I'm pointing out that girls and boys ARE different AND that there are differences in what society expects of them and that inevitably this means we have to consider different things for girls than we do for boys if we want them all to arrive in adulthood as sensible, considerate, not-sexist people.

So absolutely, we don't have "blue chores" and "pink chores" in our house. But conversations about consent are different with DS than they are with DD. Similarly, I have to work harder to counteract the messages DD has thrown at her every single day to "be kind" etc. I don't have to focus on that to the same extent with DS.

It’s insane that the MN forum would make you think like this. In fact I would say it’s dangerous for how people view others. The vast, vast, vast majority of men are not abusers/alcoholics/drug users/sex worker users/angry violent apes/serial cheaters/axe murderers/whether other labels people care to put all men under on here.

@CurlewKate said it better. Thank you. Treating differently is not the same as treating unequally.

In my teens, quite a few of the boys got more pocket money on the assumption that they needed to "treat" the girls. That's treating them unequally.

In our family, at university, all children were given an allowance that covered things like clothes, food, entertainment out etc. Extras had to be paid for ourselves. Basic essentials like sanitary protection were paid for by my parents. Looking back, of course my "basic essentials" cost significantly more than the equivalent for my brother. That was treating us differently, but fairly.

Couldn't agree more. The vilest people I have experiences with were women so it's not always men.

As you have said you have a line of good male models so why are you afraid? Life is greater than Mn and most women you speak to don't share this view or experience.