Do some news items make you think that humanity is irredeemable? ***warning - upsetting subject, related to treatment of monkeys***

[Sausagenbacon]

I heard the story on the news today about people paying to watch baby monkeys being tortured online.

It was so terrible, and makes me think that, as a species, we're fucked.

And, if enough people will make it financially viable to do that, I know what I think would be next (but I can't bring myself to type it.)

Sorry to those who think I'm overdoing it, but I find it incredibly upsetting.

I skim-read the article because I couldn't stomach the detail, but even so, this made me feel sick and it's haunted me all day. I'm not a vindictive person at all, but I found myself hoping that those who inflicted such atrocities on the monkeys, and those who paid to have others cause hideous suffering on their behalf, will themselves feel pain like that one day...and that when they do, they will remember those monkeys.

The worrying thing for me was that how normal many of the viewers of these videos were. These were people, men and women, with children and pets of their own, jobs...they were functioning members of society. How could they separate the love they presumably felt for their own children/pets from the unimaginable suffering endured by the monkeys - small, vulnerable, childlike - that they paid to have tortured? How do they look their own children in the eye after this?

@TulipTuesday I also thought that this case had strong parallels with child abuse.

@lucyhogan This is a false equivalence. The meat industry certainly has its faults but nobody is eating meat because they want to cause suffering to animals. I'm sure slaughterhouses are not very pleasant, but at least there is stunning, vetinary supervision etc in place to minimise suffering and although a few bad actors sneak in, I don't believe that the majority of abbatoir employees are deliberately setting out to torture the animals.

Not all farmed animals are tortured.

Eating meat is not inherently wrong.

Yes, there are degrees of I'll-treatment. Torture of baby primates is about as bad as you can get. I think it's pretty silly to say that slaughtering for meat within government regulations (albeit imperfect) is comparable to pure sadism.

Why can't both be condemned? It's a false assumption that people are ok with ive stock being tortured. Where that happens, it's also evil.

All this is is what about dry that derails this cruelty. How does this help anyone? It's not convincing anyone to be vegan and it diverts attention away from this topic.

It's the same with the Yukon festival. Ok, maybe some people want to eat dogs. I don't think dogs were bred for that purpose, but ok.

Just because you eat dogs doesn't make it ok to torture dogs to death and deliberately inflict as much agony as possible.

Same here.

I hope Anonymous or one of those groups leak the names and details of every single person who was on this vile torture forum. If I ever found out someone I knew or was related to watched/paid to view this barbaric muck, I’d never have anything to do with them again. It’s disgusting and anyone involved is definitely deranged and should be avoided at all costs. As you can guess, I’m disgusted at some humans at the moment.

The fact is animals are tortured as part of the meat industry, during their lives and not just when they're killed. Pigs are at least as intelegent as a 3 year old child. The majority in the UK are kept in farrowing crates for a week before giving birth and up to 4 weeks afterwards. So up to 5 weeks of an extremely intelegent animal not being able to even turn around, just being able to stand up and take one step forward or one step back.

So yes, animals are tortured for pleasure as part of the meat industry. Not the same kind of pleasure sure, but for the purpose of pleasing your taste buds. In a country such as this the majority of people can have a well balanced diet without the need for animal products.

From a psychological perspective I find it fascinating what people try to justify to themselves (and as I wasn't always vegan it's something I used to do too!) I genuinely don't understand how people are horrified by what's been happening to the monkeys, yet torturing other animals that are thought of as food in this culture are fine to be treated terribly. If someone can explain the difference I would much appreciate it!

@lucyhogan Killing other animals for food is part of nature like it or not that is why there is a food chain.

Torturing animals for pleasure and fun is not a normal part of nature its sick. Please do every one on this thread take your vegan crusade some where else and stop trying to derail a serious discussion.

Those facilitating and funding these appalling acts should be jailed.

Agree. Our continued treatment of beautiful animals is really horrific. The people that are deliberately cruel to animals are absolutely disgusting individuals and there is no excuse for it.

I haven't been able to be brave enough to read the BBC news reports about the monkeys. I just know I wouldn't be able to sleep if I read the details. I despair of humans sometimes.

@User5000 those conditions are awful. It's the product of greed. It's neglect and inexcusable treatment but it's not torture and it's simply not the same as people going out of their way to be evil.

Yes I saw this

Absolutely dispicable

Really does make me question humanity and what makes certain people tick

People torture human babies, I don't know why we'd expect they'd treat animals any better.

This isn't the same as eating meat.

For a start off, eating meat isn't illegal

Well yes. But I don’t think anyone here is actually watching them!

OP it’s horrific. I suspect we are thinking the same kind of thing. They’ve chosen these animals because they are reminiscent of babies :(

After working in a several abattoirs i have become a die hard vegan. It didn't matter if they were grass fed,organic or caged, they still died frozen in fear.

I can still feel their hearts beating so fast through my gloves. There is no way to consume animals ethically.

How about pets that are fed animals?

My dh used to work an abattoir. He worked in the killing room once. He preferred doing the actual packing to doing that.

I will hold my hands up and say I could never do it. I eat meat, not a lot of it but I do, and I could never be one who butchers their own meat.

I could cut it out my diet, my my diet is extremely limited. I have ARFID..

That’s completely different since they generally NEED it.

Most animals that are fed things like chicks and mice, are fed them dead. It’s rare that people use live chicks or mice.

Things like crickets, mealworms, flies etc are fed live.

This isn't about eating meat. We've already forgotten the monkeys and gotten absolutely nowhere. The whataboutery makes me understand why people can't stand vegans. It's like nothing else matters... until we solve every issue in farming, any other cruelty is secondary

This is about the monkey news, not farming

@LucyHogan You are 100% correct. And i say that as someone who has plenty of blood on their hands.

I would 'process' 10,000 chickens an hour and 9000 pigs a day.

If a slaughter house isnt torture then I dont know what is.

@Speakinginsign I'm a huge fan of Shirley after finding out about her work from the IPPL Instagram account. May I ask, is your book a 'safe' read? By that, I mean are there graphic details of mistreatment? I have a great fondness for our cousins, you see and I do tend to get very upset when I read about their mistreatment. I can cope with scientific/laboratory details and after effects though. Anyway, I'd really like to read it! I haven't been able to read the BBC report at all and I can remember crying for around three hours straight after hearing about little Millie Marmoset (thank goodness she went to Alison Cronin!). I remember Nim and Washoe well from my own psych undergrad days, that was probably how primates in general have stolen my heart!

It’s so irritating.

And I’ll be be convinced it’s a relevant comparison when you show me there’s a large group of people paying money to see bespoke videos from slaughterhouses for no reason other than viewing pleasure.

I think the blender plan went ahead and was one of the most popular videos.

‘The members of Ape’s Cage couldn’t get enough of the blender idea. They debated how much they should send for the blender, which model would be up to the job. In April 2022, Mr Ape went to Storey with a nine-point plan for how it should be done.

The blender video was a big hit in the monkey hate community and Mr Ape basked in the fame that came from it. He and Storey commissioned more videos, including another fatal video involving a red power drill that was even harder to watch.’

@CaptainJackSparrow85 Seriously, was there really any need to go into THAT much detail? I'm fucking crying now. Absolutely fucking bawling.

Those conditions sure do sound like both physical and mental suffering to me, in order to force them to do something.

@SheIIy nobody has forgotten the monkeys at all, I just genuinely do not understand how people are horrified by the treatment of some animals but horrific treatment of other animals is acceptable 🤷‍♀️ I see it the other way round to your post, I think cruelty to any animal is equal, why do you think cruelty to the monkeys is more important than cruelty to other species?

I can't read the reports, but does anyone know how this content was just available for people to watch? Was it on the dark web or something? Where did they get the monkeys from?