Do some news items make you think that humanity is irredeemable? ***warning - upsetting subject, related to treatment of monkeys***

[Sausagenbacon]

I heard the story on the news today about people paying to watch baby monkeys being tortured online.

It was so terrible, and makes me think that, as a species, we're fucked.

And, if enough people will make it financially viable to do that, I know what I think would be next (but I can't bring myself to type it.)

Sorry to those who think I'm overdoing it, but I find it incredibly upsetting.

No. I thought the exact same. That’s why baby monkeys have been chosen instead of kittens or rats or guinea pigs or whatever. They enjoy seeing the baby monkeys tortured because they’re so human-like. And the investigating officers said how much the behaviour of the group reminded them of the behaviour of child abuse gangs.

Everyone who says the people doing this/watching it are not human - they are absolutely 100% human. Only humans are capable of depravity and cruelty on this scale. By 'othering' these people all you do is make yourself feel a bit better, and excuse the human race from any collective responsibility. All of these people are part of our wider society, we need much stronger laws to tackle this, which is a collective action we can take in our corner of the world. Did anyone in this thread write to their tory MP to complain that they voted down the bill to strengthen animal rights in the UK?

And yet many of you eat meat.

You don't need to, you're just in the habit.
Your enjoyment of meat means millions of animals a year are reared and killed.

There are 2 thing I cannot abide -

child abuse and animal abuse. I can't imagine what kind of depraved, disgusting, evil bastards could do either, and I would quite happily kill someone who does. I saw the headlines on the news about the baby monkey story, and I had to change channel. Things like that honestly keep me awake at night.

I think you're probably right

Are you really comparing eating meat (which humans have done since we've been in existence) to one of these people getting off on deliberately inflicting pain and suffering or watching it?

Ok you first🙄

Yes, because a poster being upset about how humans torture animals warrants this sarcastic reply🙄

Ok…..these babies were literally being tortured. I’m talking removing of fingers and one was even thinking of buying a blender.

No where comparable to the meat trade

I agree with those saying humans are terrible. Even if 1% of humans are evil, that's 70 million people. The amount of destruction is unfathomable. To both other animals and each other... horrible.

As far as I'm concerned, there's very little difference between torturing a monkey and a human. I cannot read for their than the headline for this.

How is gaining enjoyment from the suffering and death of animals not comparable? Just because you do one doesn't excuse it?

I saw that report. Heartbreaking and horrifying. The vast majority of people would be sickened, but there's obviously a market for all types of evil shit.

Please no... why is it that whenever someone criticises animal torture, someone has to bring in the meat trade to derail? You can't be vegan. You must be someone who just hates animals.

You know what, you're right. Anyone who eats meat is a hypocrite. Let's not give a shit. about baby primates being tortured by evil people who are also a threat to human beings due to their sadism. Makes sense.

So one sort of animal torture is abhorrent, another is fine?

The rest of your argument makes no sense.

But the meat market in the UK is heavily regulated. It’s not tortured. It’s not nice at times but places that get caught are handed a very large fine.

That article was horrendous. I read most of it today and had to stop reading, it was so unpleasant. I just can’t believe there are people that vile in the world. It’s just evil.

Coming late to this thread. I’m sickened, but not surprised. My recent work has unravelled done really sickening things about primates. I thought they were only being done in the 60s & 70s but they are still shockingly common.

My background is that I saw a film called Project Nim (it’s on Amazon Prime) about a chimpanzee taught sign language. I contacted one, if not THE best friend of Nim, a man called Robert Ingersoll, and in under 1 year we wrote a book undercover about some of the horrific things that were and are done to primates. We wrote about a wonderful woman from Cheshire named Shirley McGreal who saw crates of monkeys at Bangkok airport, ready for transportation. she single-handedly changed animal laws.

Oh I am so sad to read this today.

I am constantly sent stupid images “because you work with monkeys”. Pretty sure many originated from these groups. Any clip with a monkey or chimpanzee in cutesy clothing, performing tricks and “entertaining” is a part of this abuse.

I hope my - and others’ - reporting of these images to Facebook & Instagram has led to this investigation. Telegram is also a source of passing on this filth.

Hoping this is the start of a more general ban of primate porn.

*some
not done

“some really sickening things about primates. I thought they were only being done in the 60s & 70s but they are still shockingly common.”

It's quite clear. You just don't have a response.

Absolutely. What purpose do we actually serve?
Monkeys (and apes) are far more useful to the planet. They eat plants and fruit then crap out the seeds. More plants and fruit grows, feeding plenty of other species and perpetuating the forest. Human beings perpetuate nothing other than themselves.

I gave a talk last week with Robert Ingersoll & Joyce Butler (both cared for Nim). Bob now works in monkey sanctuary, and secretly rescued 109 chimps and 65 monkeys from a medical research laboratory in the late 90s/00s.

The interview is about our book which we write undercover since he has been silenced. But we also talk about WHY we need to address these sorts of issues. If we can do this to animals with whom we share 97-98% of our DNA, what hope is there for how we treat each other???

I’m grinning like a loon in a lot of this (autistic nerves) but the Zoom link to our interview is here:

Shelly, your response did not explain why the meat trade and other forms of animal torture are not morally equivalent. It therefore made no sense as an argument.

What I think you're trying to argue is that there are degrees of animal torture, some of which are acceptable?

Although our work is in chimpanzees, there are horrific things also happening to monkeys.

Please consider a visit up Monkey World in Dorset, where they provide rescue & sanctuary for monkeys like this, instead of a zoo, this summer.

I could go on & on & on. Topical. Heart wrenching. I’m so angry today.

Monkey World is great, I've been three times.

I’ve been to Monkey World too . Very long trip for us but worth it.

Alison is amazing among the primate world. She does so much and is the reason why trading apes is illegal in a lot of countries. It’s a shame her husband died. He was amazing too

lucyhogan

Killing (not torturing) an animal for food is fine.

Torturing an animal to derive pleasure from watching it's pain is absolutely NOT FINE

I see no moral contradiction. I'm sure you do and are eager to give us your arguments. Don't bother, we know what you will say.