To respond untruthfully to this message

[Thepolitepink]

I play a sport which has quite a close community where I live (not U.K.). Recently there was some controversy in the community where a man treated a much younger, female newcomer badly (verbally intimidated her) and then made her life difficult for a while after she spoke up. It was horrendous.

I was very involved in supporting her when this unfolded. I never confronted him directly during this time, just because it was agreed that another person would lead the charge.

The guy involved isn’t particularly well respected anyway within the community.

The nature of the sport is such that there is no governing body, so he couldn’t be ‘kicked out’. We each play alone (think athletics) but get together at different places for trainings etc.

I rarely encounter him as I play at a higher level, but recently saw him at an event and ignored him.

He messaged me today (very politely) asking if there was an issue as he noted I’d ignored him.

I really really don’t want any drama and I’d usually just say everything was fine, but that would be extremely dishonest. His behaviour during the whole thing was absolutely awful.

On the other hand, the whole episode that involved him was so stressful for the whole community, that I really don’t want to open another can of worms. He isn’t someone who would take criticism well.

I have absolutely no idea how to respond, or even if I should.

Have the courage of your convictions.
Tell him you supported X through her ordeal and have no desire to have anything to do with him and tell him not to attempt to communicate with you in any way.

I think just ignore. The fact that he made the newcomers life difficult afterwards and is now messaging you makes me think he just can’t help but escalate this. I’m guessing it’s a like a scab he’s just going to keep picking at.

Dodge and avoid OP. I have a friend who is amazing at this in all comms.

"What an odd question - why do you ask?"

"Oh, OK. I guess I must have been distracted."

Similar to the above don't feed his need for drama but don't leave him hanging either (that would incur drama in itself).

I think I'd ignore it.

If you must reply, I would just keep it very short - like the suggestions above
"I'm friends with x" or " your behaviour regarding the issue with X made me extremely uncomfortable' but I would stop there. I wouldn't say 'please don't contact me again' because it is a bit red rag to a bull and there is no need. You say you don't see him often so you don't need to say this as you can just ignore him in future.

There is literally no way to win in a situation like this.

Even though it doesn't seem like it, the message he sent you is highly aggressive - it's just couched in a way that makes it seem like he's asking an innocent question. Some men are so incredibly good at this tactic that I wonder if they don't discuss it among themselves and hone their skill at it.

You are not his friend, so ignoring him isn't particularly rude - it was a minimal-drama way to avoid the situation and the best thing you could have done in the circumstances. You sent a clear message that you didn't want to interact with him. A decent person might have felt hard done by but as you're not friends they would have let it go and accepted you're not interested in them.

This guy is not a decent person. He saw you react to the situation and is now 'politely' asking why you're reacting as if he doesn't know full well why. He's trying to provoke you and draw you into a conversation so he can either justify himself or intimidate you or both. There is no world in which you are ever obligated to engage with him but he's put you in a situation where you now have to either respond or actively ignore him, which means you're involved in his drama, whether you want to be or not. It's hideous behaviour and so typical of this sort of petty, aggressive man.

The best response would be to subtly or unsubtly let this bully know that other people are aware of his behaviour - something along the lines of 'I've talked to X and Y about the fact that you felt ignored. We can get together as a group to discuss it if you like, let me know.' Introducing other people into the conversation is an amazingly effective way to shut men like this down - he is now aware you're informing others of his behaviour and he knows you're going to call him to account if his 'polite' veneer slips. Chances are he won't respond or he'll say it's fine, no need.

The easiest response is to ignore but be aware that men like this will either believe your silence is because you're afraid (which he'll love) or he'll see it as a provocation - either way there's a decent chance he'll escalate.

Being very open and vocal about everything he does is likely to be effective - men like this depend on silence and politeness.

There's a good balance of arguments for responding or not responding here. On the whole I'm finding myself more persuaded by the latter.

The more I go through life and have to deal with this type of person, the more I've found that tactical retreat is very often the more powerful and effective response. In fact, it is a response. It says: 'I have no time for you. You're unworthy of my notice. I won't even pay you the courtesy of engaging'. If the fear is that doing otherwise will be seen as weak, it isn't. The outcome you want to gain here is a basic 'fuck off and stop bothering me'. You don't have to care what he thinks.

Aside from that, refusal to engage is an excellent self-preservation measure. No one can argue with silence. Nor can you land yourself in unforeseen difficulty on the basis of something you didn't say.

As the old saying goes, 'if in doubt, do nowt'.

NB. and yes. He wants to draw you into a dialogue. Don't allow this.

I don't buy for one instant that a refusal to respond is instigating drama. It's quite the opposite. If he does approach you in public you can then close him down with one cold sentence.

Job done.

"I choose to avoid men like you".

Ignore! If you see him face-to-face and he asks you directly, you could simply say you feel he is ill mannered towards others. Don’t offer any context.

I completely understand the responses saying a calm, direct response telling him you didn't like his behaviour and want to stay apart. It is the rational and understandable response.

However, I agree with the posters who say this is just adding fuel to the fire. Unless the two of you were quite friendly prior to all this happening (which seems unlikely based on your OP), the very fact that he is contacting you is a huge red flag. Most of us are involved in various activities/community events of one sort or another and we sometimes chat or engage with people and sometimes don't and no one thinks it's weird. So he is already targeting you. He knows why you are not actively seeking him out.

If you tell him why you don't want to engage with him, no matter how politely, men like this will turn it on you. You will most likely be the recipient of a stream of abuse/excuses/attempts to win you over/attempts to intimidate you etc.

@TheDailyCarbunkle

There is no world in which you are ever obligated to engage with him but he's put you in a situation where you now have to either respond or actively ignore him, which means you're involved in his drama, whether you want to be or not. It's hideous behaviour and so typical of this sort of petty, aggressive man.

The best response would be to subtly or unsubtly let this bully know that other people are aware of his behaviour - something along the lines of 'I've talked to X and Y about the fact that you felt ignored. We can get together as a group to discuss it if you like, let me know.' Introducing other people into the conversation is an amazingly effective way to shut men like this down - he is now aware you're informing others of his behaviour and he knows you're going to call him to account if his 'polite' veneer slips. Chances are he won't respond or he'll say it's fine, no need.

The easiest response is to ignore but be aware that men like this will either believe your silence is because you're afraid (which he'll love) or he'll see it as a provocation - either way there's a decent chance he'll escalate.

This is a really interesting analysis @TheDailyCarbunkle . I like your idea of ensuring other people are aware of his behaviour. Is this just your idea or is it a recognised technique from somewhere?

Think of this as a self defense situation against a man who has proved himself to be aggressive and adversarial, don't confuse it with a normal social interaction. Anything you need do for self preservation is OK.

I wouldn't respond to it.

He may well have messaged a number of people, and if so you'd be bringing yourself into it.

I agree with this.

Ignore and block

I have been thinking about this and I have changed my previous advice (which was to state “Don’t contact me again.”)
I agree that you shouldn’t respond. Ignoring him might very well inspire a stream of entitled vitriol that you could take to the police. I would caution ever being alone where he is likely to know your whereabouts also. I can see him barging up to try and force a confrontation. If he does this when you have witnesses and protection, fine. If not, call the police immediately.

The best response would be to subtly or unsubtly let this bully know that other people are aware of his behaviour - something along the lines of 'I've talked to X and Y about the fact that you felt ignored. We can get together as a group to discuss it if you like, let me know.' Introducing other people into the conversation is an amazingly effective way to shut men like this down - he is now aware you're informing others of his behaviour and he knows you're going to call him to account if his 'polite' veneer slips. Chances are he won't respond or he'll say it's fine, no need.

Completely agree with this advice. Sunlight is the best disinfectant and hence he will avoid it.

It's a version of a recognised technique - certain bullying types rely on other people to remain quiet and polite and they use other people's reticence to claim they never did anything wrong. If from the start you make everything very open and loud, they stop seeing you as a target - you're too much trouble. It doesn't stop them targeting other people unfortunately.

Incidentally another version of this technique is useful when someone engages in 'banter' or 'jokes' or likes to throw rude comments into conversation when other people are around - pretending not to hear and asking them to repeat themselves. Once a bullying type has to say something twice it becomes obvious how rude/inappropriate their words are and usually embarrasses them into shutting up. The best bit is that it's low confrontation - failing to hear clearly seems innocent (essentially using their own tactics against them).

It's a version of a recognised technique - certain bullying types rely on other people to remain quiet and polite and they use other people's reticence to claim they never did anything wrong. If from the start you make everything very open and loud, they stop seeing you as a target - you're too much trouble.

Lone bullies depend on the victim's silence, but being open doesn't work in situations where they can gather flying monkeys. It just makes you a bigger target for a mob.

Very true - particularly in situations where the bully has a lot of influence and others in a group are invested in keeping the peace - often happens with a bullying parent for example. I'm getting the impression from the OP that this guy doesn't fit that bill - he's been called out on behaviour already and is now trying to silence people in a very sneaky way rather than gathering people around him to make him untouchable.

The best response would be to subtly or unsubtly let this bully know that other people are aware of his behaviour - something along the lines of 'I've talked to X and Y about the fact that you felt ignored. We can get together as a group to discuss it if you like, let me know.' Introducing other people into the conversation is an amazingly effective way to shut men like this down - he is now aware you're informing others of his behaviour and he knows you're going to call him to account if his 'polite' veneer slips. Chances are he won't respond or he'll say it's fine, no need.

😬

While in theory, this might be appear to be a good idea, in practice, I really wouldn’t recommend naming names, and dragging other people into it?

You’d have to get their agreement to do this, before offering them up as people to be involved in some sort of group mediation. How do you even know they’d be willing to do that?

And even putting that aside, you could very easily be perceived as gossiping about the situation with others, and certainly of upping the drama.

I really would not advise this approach.

For the avoidance of doubt - and to cut short any 'his side' BS - I would be blunt and say, I was extremely uncomfortable with the (hobby episode) and the way you subsequently conducted yourself. There is no reason for us to interact and I would prefer that you not contact me like this again.

Have the courage of your convictions.
Tell him you supported X through her ordeal and have no desire to have anything to do with him and tell him not to attempt to communicate with you in any way.

Both ^^ of these message are very contradictory.

They both say ‘there’s no reason for us to interact’ and ‘I have no desire to have anything to do with you’.

Well, if that were even vaguely true - and I’m sure in the case of the OP, it very much is - then she shouldn’t even engage with him AT ALL.

I do think people like to indulge just a tiny bit of drama in these situation, with the telling the bad man off.

Ignore, ignore, ignore. Do not engage. And stick to it.

Easy, and drama-free.

It’s the only possible response.

Agree.

No one requires others' approval. People don't have to engage with bullies (or with anyone, for that matter), part with their personal information, explain why they don't use a 'Mrs' title, give a justification as to their lifestyle, domestic or professional decisions, announce their pronouns, give detailed explanations as to why they don't want to do something, or in any way justify, argue, defend or explain, just because someone sees fit to demand it.

Since this message started getting through to me I've had a much easier life.

Agree.

Ignoring awful people, refusing to engage is usually the best way IMO.

Definitely tell others that he contacted you and you are ignoring him, but refusing to acknowledge him in any way makes your position clear.

You owe him nothing.

He wishes to bully you, engage you, defend his position, whatever it is, it is giving oxygen to scum.

Don't do it, but warn others.

I quite like this approach, presuming that a willing X and Y can be found. It combines blowing his behaviour out into the open with killing him with kindness. It does require a certain investment of energy though, which OP may feel she could do without.

Have you decided how/whether to respond @Thepolitepink ?

Why drag two more innocent people into his drama?

Block and ignore.