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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Adam Kay and his husband’s babies

434 replies

MatildaTheCat · 18/06/2023 17:38

Apologies if this has already been covered.

I read in the paper this morning that AK and his DH have welcomed TWO babies into their lives, born to two different surrogates. One child is six months old and their sibling is two months old.

I genuinely cannot wrap my head around this. It seems so very odd to me. Is it a case of ‘one each’ or ‘get the baby stages over asap’?

Obviously nobody but the two parents can answer this but AIBU to find this really quite disturbing?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
lljkk · 18/06/2023 21:13

I wish them well and hope they all have a happy family life together. That is what is in best interests of the children.

BeverlyHa · 18/06/2023 21:13

Brokendaughter · Today 17:52
They aren't parents.

Parents don't buy babies.
:

yes, exactly. buying humans is called slavery trade and whoever thinks there is place for it in the 21 c will be accountable for it, one way or another

Purplefoalfoot · 18/06/2023 21:14

Tantaijin · 18/06/2023 18:23

100% this.

Surrogacy is morally repugnant, in all forms.

This all day long

LostFrog · 18/06/2023 21:15

So pleased I’m not the only one, I haven’t read his book and was only half listening to Desert Island Discs whilst thinking he sounded quite nice, then heard the surrogacy bit and was like - eh? Just put me off him completely.

GCalltheway · 18/06/2023 21:21

Selling children is deeply unethical - I am still
amazed and horrified it still happens.

JemimaTiggywinkles · 18/06/2023 21:22

Should pregnant drug addicts and alcoholics be subject to forced termination under these thoughts?

No, because a termination is a medical procedure performed on a woman. And so obviously her consent is necessary. Removal at birth may be the least-bad option in many cases. But pretending that removal at birth has no consequences for the child is daft - what evidence exists tells us that is does cause harm.

Ghosttofu99 · 18/06/2023 21:26

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 18/06/2023 20:33

Regarding surrogacy.

essay

I was an altruistic surrogate for some friends, carrying and giving birth to twins. It was an incredibly traumatic experience, and afterwards I had to receive treatment for post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). I never talk to anyone about my experience as I still find it utterly devastating.

We only ever hear about the positive stories in the media, pushed by the organisations that promote surrogacy. It is important that people hear about how surrogacy can go seriously wrong, and the life-long impacts of that on the women who offer their bodies to be used by others.

I became a surrogate for some friends. I naively believed that because the births of my own children had gone well, it would also be simple for a surrogacy pregnancy. I thought I’d done a lot of research and I did talk to some other surrogates before embarking on it.

However, I agreed to go ahead before I knew enough about the extremely intrusive and harmful medical procedures I would need to go through. I naively thought I would simply have the embryos implanted in line with my own menstrual cycle. I did not realise my own natural cycle would have to be chemically halted, and the amount of harmful and synthetic hormones I would have to take to create an artificial cycle that was in line with the egg donor’s.

Once I discovered the amount of hormones I would have to take, I felt like I could not back out and devastate my friends. I went ahead against my own better judgement and my internal instincts which were warning me – because I did not want to cause offence or upset my friends.

I was also persuaded to have two embryos implanted to increase the chance of successful implantation. I now realise I did not fully understand the increased risks for myself of carrying and birthing twins.

Looking back, I see that I subjugated my own health and safety to prioritise the desires of the intended parents. I also realise that my own psychological state at the time of making these decisions meant that I had a martyr complex and that I was too self-sacrificing. I completely deprioritised myself. This was due to a lack of self-esteem and assertiveness, and seeing my value lying only in how useful I was to others. I had an over-developed sense of ‘service.’

This is common in women, as female socialisation means that women and girls are encouraged and trained to put themselves second, and to prioritise other people, and to be ‘kind.’ This female socialisation and psychology needs to be investigated, researched and considered in the context of altruistic surrogates.

Throughout the pregnancy I experienced unexpected jealousy and anger from the intended mother who was upset that I could fall pregnant so easily. Both parents put pressure on me about how and where I would give birth. I had to be very assertive to make it clear that it was my body, and that the physiological process of birth works best when the mother feels completely safe and births in the way she is most comfortable with. I had to be very clear that the decision making lay with me alone.

I felt that they believed that to some extent they ‘owned’ me and my uterus, and that they ‘deserved’ to direct the birth because they saw the babies as ‘theirs.’

The birth ended up being extremely traumatic with one baby being admitted to the neonatal intensive care unit (NICU), and me suffering second degree tears.

Then a horrific two year nightmare began as the midwives moved quickly to blame me and make false claims that I prevented them from assisting in the birth. This blaming is a familiar experience to women who suffer traumatic births, in an NHS culture that will do everything it can to avoid liability in medical negligence claims. There were four separate investigations by the independent midwifery regulatory body who found all the midwives guilty of failure to intervene in an emergency, and failure to monitor foetal health during the birth. The trauma of the birth was compounded by the trauma of being blamed and then enduring multiple investigations over two years which ultimately exonerated me. Rather than moving on with my life after surrogacy, I was having to relive the trauma over and over during the investigations.

After the birth I was more or less completely abandoned by the intended parents, left to fend off the lies and victim-blaming by the midwives, left to endure the multiple investigations alone. The intended parents did not support me, nor did they defend me during the multiple investigations.

Most hurtfully I was not invited to the twin’s christening. I was used for my uterus, and then discarded when I was no longer needed. It was the most degrading and horrific experience. My mental health collapsed, and two years after the traumatic birth I was diagnosed with post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) and received treatment.

I never talk about what happened to anyone, not even to close relatives, as I do not want to relive what happened to me. It wasn’t until the Law Commissioners’ consultation that I ever spoke about this.

I am left with birth injuries, incontinence, and with diastasic recti (separation of the abdominal muscles) which all cause me daily problems. I do not know what the long term health impacts will be of taking large amounts of synthetic hormones, nor the potential increased risk of breast cancer as I did not breastfeed the babies.

I am now completely against ALL surrogacy, both commercial (which is completely immoral in my view) and altruistic unpaid surrogacy. The potential for abuse is too great. Women should not be encouraged to endanger their emotional and physical health and safety for other people’s ‘need’ to have babies. Women matter. Women should not be encouraged to put ourselves second, and to risk our lives for other people.

I recommend that ALL surrogacy should be made unlawful as other countries have done. The law should not be changed to make it easier to exploit women, both women who are vulnerable through poverty and those who are simply well-meaning and ill-informed like me.

I also often think of the poor, young female student in Eastern Europe who had to endure egg harvesting and the life-long consequences of that, to pay for her studies. There is very little that is ‘ethical’ about surrogacy.
From: I was an altruistic surrogate and am now against all surrogacy

This is a very compelling argument.

I can (try to) understand the devastation of struggling with ttc, multiple miscarriages etc but I think that if someone ultimately wants to have kids for the right reasons it would be more ethical to adopt than to go down the route described above.

Tiddlypomtiddlypom · 18/06/2023 21:27

A man who speaks with such revulsion on female bodies, on their functions, on the failure of their functions as they age… I guess it’s fitting he’s utilised the functionality of two of them to produce children for him. And I expect he will still speak of them as though those bodies are nothing more than disgusting meat to him.

Hideous.

beatrice14 · 18/06/2023 21:30

Which, I'm sorry, I see that you weren't trying to speak for everyone- I thought you were agreeing with PTSD's post which implied that ALL children who are separated from their birth mothers are 'completely damaged', but now I see you might not have been.

Dubaibutwhy · 18/06/2023 21:30

The only situation where I can understand surrogacy is when a woman can't physically carry a child, due to uterine surgery or similar, but the child is conceived using her eggs.

Anything else makes me feel deeply uncomfortable

MagpiePi · 18/06/2023 21:31

lljkk · 18/06/2023 21:13

I wish them well and hope they all have a happy family life together. That is what is in best interests of the children.

The children are only in existence because AK and his husband paid for them to be created. AK and his husband haven’t saved these children from some kind of dreadful life.

Cyclebabble · 18/06/2023 21:37

@ArabeIIaScott You have no idea what the arrangement was with the surrogates was. Many dedicated women have a positive experience of being a surrogate.

ArabeIIaScott · 18/06/2023 21:39

'dedicated' to what?

IJustHadToLookHavingReadTheBook · 18/06/2023 21:48

GailBlancheViola · 18/06/2023 19:44

I mean, I'm a southerner. It did make me laugh at the time, yeah. It still raises a bit of a titter now. Doesn't mean it's right or true, just that it's objectively quite funny to hear those amusing lyrics over the tune to 'More than Words'. I also laughed at the lyric 'They're all lazy, fucking useless cunts' about London Underground train drivers, but I don't hate all TfL staff.

It takes all sorts I suppose. I note you swerved the other questions I asked.

Sorry @GailBlancheViola I wasn't swerving, I was putting the kids to bed and replying on the hop.

Re: your other questions about free passes for outdated humour... well, not free passes exactly but I certainly don't think that we should be banning or cutting out things from TV shows/films/novels of the 50s/60s/70s etc, no. In my opinion cancel culture is mad and if we banned everything that has outdated ideas portrayed in it then we wouldn't have much art left. I'm an English teacher and we teach a-lot of literature that uses offensive language to us here in the 21st century (Of Mice and Men is a great example, and still widely taught). One of the main points of looking at old jokes/insults/language in general is to have a conversation about why society has moved on.

Not sure that I'd put the Amateur Transplants in that category though. It was student humour with a bit of gross/shocking stuff for their fellow medics. And a lot of it was genuinely very amusing. You've picked on the outliers in terms of their songs for shock value, but most of it was pretty benign and silly and in no way offensive.

nothingcomestonothing · 18/06/2023 21:59

Cyclebabble · 18/06/2023 21:37

@ArabeIIaScott You have no idea what the arrangement was with the surrogates was. Many dedicated women have a positive experience of being a surrogate.

Like these women?

https://www.legalizesurrogacywhynot.com/stories

Stories

Legalize Surrogacy: Why Not?

https://www.legalizesurrogacywhynot.com/stories

GailBlancheViola · 18/06/2023 22:00

Re: your other questions about free passes for outdated humour... well, not free passes exactly but I certainly don't think that we should be banning or cutting out things from TV shows/films/novels of the 50s/60s/70s etc, no. In my opinion cancel culture is mad and if we banned everything that has outdated ideas portrayed in it then we wouldn't have much art left. I'm an English teacher and we teach a-lot of literature that uses offensive language to us here in the 21st century (Of Mice and Men is a great example, and still widely taught). One of the main points of looking at old jokes/insults/language in general is to have a conversation about why society has moved on.

I agree with you on this.

Mamanch · 18/06/2023 22:02

DinaofCloud9 · 18/06/2023 17:50

He doesn't seem a decent sort at all. He's a vile misogynist.

Exactly.

Snugglemonkey · 18/06/2023 22:17

hattyhathat · 18/06/2023 17:53

I can only imagine they weren't expecting both to conceive at the same time

But they would know that the first had conceived before inseminating the second.

Hardbackwriter · 18/06/2023 22:19

IJustHadToLookHavingReadTheBook · 18/06/2023 21:48

Sorry @GailBlancheViola I wasn't swerving, I was putting the kids to bed and replying on the hop.

Re: your other questions about free passes for outdated humour... well, not free passes exactly but I certainly don't think that we should be banning or cutting out things from TV shows/films/novels of the 50s/60s/70s etc, no. In my opinion cancel culture is mad and if we banned everything that has outdated ideas portrayed in it then we wouldn't have much art left. I'm an English teacher and we teach a-lot of literature that uses offensive language to us here in the 21st century (Of Mice and Men is a great example, and still widely taught). One of the main points of looking at old jokes/insults/language in general is to have a conversation about why society has moved on.

Not sure that I'd put the Amateur Transplants in that category though. It was student humour with a bit of gross/shocking stuff for their fellow medics. And a lot of it was genuinely very amusing. You've picked on the outliers in terms of their songs for shock value, but most of it was pretty benign and silly and in no way offensive.

I was also a teen in 2004 and it is just not true to say that this was standard/ok at the time. Those songs were wildly offensive then - I guess that was the 'joke', but you can't then claim that condemning Adam Kay for writing them is somehow the same as banning Of Mice and Men... And in any case, he's continued to be pretty blatantly and publicly misogynistic ever since, which also suggests that he wasn't just pretending to be a sexist twat because that was cool in the early 2000s.

RedToothBrush · 18/06/2023 22:26

Hardbackwriter · 18/06/2023 22:19

I was also a teen in 2004 and it is just not true to say that this was standard/ok at the time. Those songs were wildly offensive then - I guess that was the 'joke', but you can't then claim that condemning Adam Kay for writing them is somehow the same as banning Of Mice and Men... And in any case, he's continued to be pretty blatantly and publicly misogynistic ever since, which also suggests that he wasn't just pretending to be a sexist twat because that was cool in the early 2000s.

This.

I'd have thought prick then tbh.

I just perhaps wouldnt have said it as loudly.

autieawesome · 18/06/2023 22:28

@Tantaijin thanks for replying, you make some interesting points. Do you think it makes a difference if the egg/sperm belong to the prospective parents as opposed to the woman who is pregnant. So when the baby is born it's returned to the people it has the genetic link to? Is surrogacy worse than adoption

JemimaTiggywinkles · 18/06/2023 22:40

Is surrogacy worse than adoption

Adoption is better than the alternatives (leaving a baby with a mother who cannot or does not want to care for him/her; forcing termination on a woman who doesn’t want one).
Surrogacy is worse that the alternative (not creating the baby in the first place).

The more ethical choice for people who want to be parents and can’t have their own is definitely adoption.

BodegaSushi · 18/06/2023 22:43

They aren't the first with this strange arrangement.

Alec and Hilaria Baldwin have children born 6 months apart, one was via surrogate. Hilaria was perfectly capable of bearing children having had 5 before and once since.

Then Elon 'Worshipped on Mumsnet' Musk and Grimes welcomed a daughter via surrogate ONE MONTH after a woman gave birth to his twins 🥴

cocoloco117 · 18/06/2023 22:45

Lcb123 · 18/06/2023 17:58

how about it being none of your business?

He’s the one trying to leverage it for publicity. If he doesn’t want people making it their business maybe he shouldn’t do interviews with the national press?

JemimaTiggywinkles · 18/06/2023 22:46

Re gametes: lots of it really does depend. I don’t agree with paying people for donation. The exploitative practice of offering thousands of pounds discount on fertility treatment for the woman donating eggs should also be illegal. And I agree with the UK law that children born from donor gametes have a right to know their heritage so are allowed to access the donating person’s details when they turn 18.

With those caveats in place I think it is okay to allow gamete donation. But I do wonder if we’ll look back on that and find that children who grew up without knowing their genetic parents have worse outcomes than those who did know them. I’ve no evidence to back up that gut instinct though, so don’t think it should be banned.