AIBU to be think that most women would be jailed for their abortions as so many of us embellish?

[Upsetaboutabortionbeingacrime]

1 in 3 women in this country obtain abortions at some point in their lives.

I sincerely believe that as abortion is a criminal act in the UK and to obtain one without being open to prosecution, a woman needs two doctors to permit it. because of this many many many women emphasise and maybe even embellish, or lie, to obtain that. Will it really mean you cannot afford your rent / mortgage and you'll be homeless? Probably not, but you just DO NOT want a(nother) baby. And actually a woman should be able to just NOT WANT a(nother) pregnancy or a(nother) child. Yet the woman is forced to say what needs to be said procure an abortion.

Therefore thousands of women every year would be jailed just like this woman has been.

The jailing was NOT because of the late term of the pregnancy, it was because she lied to obtain it and therefore she's in jail.

Lots and lots women have done that. Lots.

I don't actually agree with this take, but I still think abortion should be decriminalised.
Women need help and support, and they aren't getting it. Punishing them for not having choices isn't how a civilised society works. Put the support structure in place, and then you can think about punishments.

Its not carrot and stick if there's no carrot.

'Kill'.

Okaaaaay.

Sometimes you don't find out your pregnant until very late though.

I remember one time , I began to exhibit all the symptoms of pregnancy. Missed a period. Sore boobs. Very Swollen tummy.

I had last had sex 5 and a half months ago. So I knew if I was pregnant I would be five and a half months pregnant. I was terrified. I couldn't have the baby. I knew I was also very close to the date to have an abortion.

I rang an abortion clinic in a panic and asked if I would still be able to get an abortion at 5 and a half months.

I'll never forget what the man on the phone said . He said "we do abortions up to six months, however that is not a target for you to reach".
He was taking to me Like i would choose to be pregnant for up to as long as possible and then saunter in to get an abortion when I had reached the absolute limit.

He was very condescending.

I went to the doctor and it turned out i wasn't pregnant. I actually had a large cyst.

But I'll never forget the terror of thinking I wa pregnant at a late stage, and how condescending the abortion clinic was.

Abortion before 12 weeks should be on demand. In practice, it is for most women. I’ve had two abortions 20 years apart at 8/9 weeks and I didn’t have to give any reason other than ‘I don’t want a child’.

Late stage termination is a different matter. There need to be concrete reasons to terminate a 34 week pregnancy rather than go to full term and adoption.

Having said that, I feel for this woman and I don’t think she should’ve been imprisoned. What good does that do? What she did was desperate and misguided, but for fuck sake she was obviously in a bad place, it was a pandemic and the health service wasn’t working properly and the world was upside down. She should’ve been shown mercy.

@Upsetaboutabortionbeingacrime

what are you trying to say with this post?

Are you saying (as per your user name) that abortion should not be a crime? as you are not clear, I'm confused about what you want?

Do you find your mind turning to men when speaking about topics that relate to women?

I don't, so I won't comment.

You clearly don’t understand legalese. Not wanting a baby is enough reason and is covered by the law you are quoting.

When I was asked why I want an abortion I simply said I don’t want a baby.

@BigPeople They need reasons for a termination at any stage. If they do not have them, it's a crime.

I'm not making this up!

You do kill the fetus though in abortion. That is a fact. There is no point dancing around it is there.

Abortion is hard because it's not a light topic.

Do I think women should have to carry forced pregnancies , no I don't.

So I think the killing of fetuses is also awful and sad. Yes I do.

It's not straightforward. It's a very sad topic

Odd way of saying ‘I don’t have a response to that’

but let’s play! It’s like Shannon Matthews mum was jailed for telling a lie.

Yes and I don’t want one is a reason

I had an abortion and none of this was discussed or mentioned.

All I said was "I do not want another baby"

Abortion before 24 weeks will almost always be legal. And that is without the need for a woman to lie.

Firstly, carrying a baby to term is inherently more risky for the mother than an abortion at an early stage of pregnancy. Neither are "high risk" in most cases, but in relative terms, abortion is less risky.

Secondly, it is accepted that requiring a woman to carry a baby to full term that she does not want will be more damaging to her mental health than an abortion.

Up to 24 weeks you don't need to show that the outcome will be grave, it is just a direct comparison. So "I don't want to continue this pregnancy" is enough of a reason

After 24 weeks it is very different

The clinician was not acting outside the law. Read the criteria you yourself have quoted.

True.

I only understand The Law. Maybe you can read between lines, but I don't, I just follow The Law. I presume it has been written as it has been written for a reason.

But again, if you see criteria for 'I just don't want this pregnancy' please underline it in that law.

I'm not alone. If I were alone there wouldn't have been protests this week and Stella Creasy et al would be taking rubbish. Maybe we're all deluded and we just can't see words written in the law that are clearly there?

My AIBU was - AIBU to think most women don't fall within one of those 4 criterion.

@Mooshamoo I'm sorry you had a bad experience but I don't think a bit of negativity is the end of the world. Aborting a six month old foetus is pretty dismal.

Abortion before 24 weeks is legal.

It said that the woman jailed was 7 months pregnant.

How does one month make that much difference?

The current legislation does not allow abortion on demand before 24 weeks. It should in my view and many if not most medical professionals feel similarly because (b) is the most often used reason, without its basis being anything other than superficially interrogated. So in reality (b) is used effectively to grant termination on demand. Termination after 24 weeks is a completely different issue legally and morally as the baby is potentially able to survive independently. It will only be legal if the baby is suffering a serious abnormality (this isn't defined anywhere and is controversial) or the mother's life is in danger. Neither of those appear to have applied in the case being discussed and in any event the doctors involved were not given the evidence to consider because the woman claimed to be much earlier in her pregnancy (rather than risking the high chance of a refusal). Late terminations involve euthanising the baby in utero so that it is not delivered alive and acquires no legal identity and experiences minimal suffering. The baby was actually born alive and lived for 45 minutes. This is exactly the sort of event the legislation is intended to protect against.

Yes

At no point during my abortion (through bpas) was I asked my reasons for aborting, just that I was sure I wanted and wasn’t under any pressure from a partner etc. I saw midwives to scan and determine how far along I was doctors approved the abortion pills.

So YABU, I didn’t have to embellish, the fact that it was an unwanted pregnancy within the right time frames meant I didn’t have to have a ‘good enough’ reason.

Yes it is horrible. But what if the woman was raped. There are so many nuances to abortion.

It's a reason, but it isn't sufficient in our law.

I won't be gaslighted here. I've posted the law a few times now.

Sorry no idea why that huge space inserted itself!

Yabu because they do fall into those categories

If you don’t want to carry and give birth to a child there’s serious risk of grave injury to you mental health.

Plus any pregnancy has a risk of grave injury to physical health.

Ok, so maybe you're right. If so, I'm glad you think that might be the experience of many women.

If that is the case, your termination was illegal, though.

I wonder how that feels for many women.