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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

What an idiot (me)

112 replies

BadMotorhomeParent · 16/06/2023 19:17

I sold my motorhome to some passers-by (it was old, and not used much). I was knocked down on the price I asked.
They said they were "touring" to buy up unwanted motorhomes to take back (to Ireland) for Ukrainians who had nowhere to live/sleep.
They were in a big shiny brand new pick-up, and at first I was dealing with one Irish giant, then one-by-one, three more got out (all brothers). And the 7y.o. son of one of them. Sweet.

Without tax, they put trade plates on and said that they would have a lorry come to transport it, but did drive it away off down the road; it had started well as new battery in April. But I had o real knowledge of it's mechanical soundness (it would overheat if driven stop-start in heat I remember.)
Bank transfer/FP done while they were there.

Two hours later I get a call (fortunately one of them had taken my number), and apparently it had blown up on the "motorway" (I think, the A1), so the discussion was what did I want to do, but also they also spoke to someone who said it was a heap of shit, but it could go to a "yard"/for spares/be fixed (new engine, gearbox etc etc) at great cost.

They (I was not actually sure which brother I was speaking to; they all sounded like one another....) in the end, said - unless I misunderstood - that they would send it for scrap/spares to a nearby yard (with "a man") and I would send their money back - although not the full amount, "for my trouble". (Also had given me 10% in cash - which I didn't know what to do with....)

When I tried to send the agreed amount, the Bank held it up and I had to speak to Fraud - who said, 1) Buyer Beware - so I was not obliged to given them ANY of the money back (!!!!), 2) The motorhome is probably quite all right, and they are looking to get even more of a bargain.....
They also asked me if I felt intimidated or threatened, or was worried that there would be comeback if I stood my ground..... And I said I was only worried about (in my imagination) what would happen if I didn't.

Anyway the Bank lifted the fraud restriction (by now I had had three messages....) and I decided best to just send all the money back.

And I did. And got a call from one of the brothers (NOT the one who said I didn't need to give it all back) and he didn't even mention the fact I had sent everything to them, so now no motorhome (a mixed blessing, possibly?) and none of the money.... I asked him where "he" was (I think they had split up in various directions, and the one I was speaking to was not the one who had been in the motorhome), and he was on the way to Scotland, but the motorhome broke down in Yorkshire. I also struggled with the accents (proper proper Irish, which I do like), so didn't even really push it, trying to find out what and where. I know I am a fool.

Does anyone think I have been suckered? (I do. And the Fraud guy at the Bank thought I was - and that was before I returned the money.)

There is waaaay more backstory to this but I don't want to ramble, and have someone tell me it's too long, or too complicated, or simply not interesting enough to read.

OP posts:
BadMotorhomeParent · 16/06/2023 20:14

CatLoaf · 16/06/2023 20:10

What's with the Irish obsession

There's no Irish "obsession". They WERE Irish (as a descriptor) and certainly two of them had typical Irish colouring of black hair and bright blue eyes. Originally from Cork, they said. Very nice accents* but talked so fast that it was a bit of an issue, especially on the phone. And one of them was called Patrick!
I am making more mention of how tall they were!

*Or they were good actors.

OP posts:
Bluetrews25 · 16/06/2023 20:15

If only you'd asked them for a photo of the blown-up motor home.....

EarringsandLipstick · 16/06/2023 20:16

I'm amazed too, but for slightly different reasons.

Random men appeared asking to buy your motor home. I get that this represented an opportunity but who does this? On the spur of the moment with no forward planning or price estimator, just sells a valuable item to randomers?

Secondly, the scam itself doesn't sound too scammy 😀 they paid you legitimately it appears - tho giving you 10% in cash sounds odd, and you definitely got the funds.

Most people on getting the call about the 'blown up' motor home would at least ask for proof or the return of the vehicle. So the odds of them getting most people to agree to return their funds without even seeing the van seems small - except they luckily met OP!

I'm wondering if OP is 100% certain that the funds did go through to her account. How did they actually pay you? If it was to your account it would have taken at least a few minutes to set up the acc details & transfer, and is not immediately possibly between UK / Irish accounts. This whole part makes no sense.

Finally, I get being intimidated. And wanting to return the funds. I do not get why you didn't ask for the vehicle back.

I want to be sympathetic but this is so bizarre I'm struggling!

BadMotorhomeParent · 16/06/2023 20:17

GlitterSquid · 16/06/2023 20:10

I'm sorry you've been through this....but what were you thinking!?!

I don't know....... (head in hands)
Maybe it would be solving a dilemma about whether to keep or let go
(like I said, more backstory that doesn't really matter for this, but plays a part in my mind, at least), but there was a little voice in my head warning me.
Even so, the "blowing up" took me by surprise.

I bet they are having a good laugh at me now.

OP posts:
EarringsandLipstick · 16/06/2023 20:19

typical Irish colouring of black hair and bright blue eyes
That's not 'typical Irish colouring' (I'm Irish)

I suspect you mean they were from the Travelling Community.

I'm wondering about all of this. 🤔

BadMotorhomeParent · 16/06/2023 20:24

EarringsandLipstick · 16/06/2023 20:19

typical Irish colouring of black hair and bright blue eyes
That's not 'typical Irish colouring' (I'm Irish)

I suspect you mean they were from the Travelling Community.

I'm wondering about all of this. 🤔

No I don't. At All.
I am only mentioning Irish becuase it was such a strong element of the transaction, and how they said what was going to happen to the motorhomes they buy ("back" to Ireland). It was really just a talking point. (I though.)
I don't know about registrations but their pick-up had an English Reg No.

And forgive me for thinking black hair and blue eyes was "typical"..... (at least I didn't go for green eyes/red hair, and get that wrong too probably - which is me, and I am definitely not Irish).

Wonder about it, if you like. I certainly wish it hadn't happened.

OP posts:
WhatADrabCarpet · 16/06/2023 20:26

It's a common scam among a particular fraternity.

EarringsandLipstick · 16/06/2023 20:30

WhatADrabCarpet · 16/06/2023 20:26

It's a common scam among a particular fraternity.

Elements of it are, sure.

But the bit where someone transfers back all the money with zero proof of the incident, and is left without either money or vehicle is bemusing.

I've heard versions where it was like a partial payment made / test drive / funds that weren't actually lodged, all that kind of thing.

EarringsandLipstick · 16/06/2023 20:32

Explain a bit more about the payment bit - how did they make the online transfer?

Tessisme · 16/06/2023 20:36

Veering off with the derail here, I and one of my sons have (or had in my case before going grey) black hair and blue eyes. We are Irish. It is one of the typical Irish/Celtic looks. Nothing wrong with OP saying that.

Ireallywantsomechips · 16/06/2023 20:36

Oh OP how awful for you.

Definitely been scammed but tbh I would have been scared too and given the money back. But clearly there’s much braver people than us on the thread, shame you didn’t have anyone like that around at the time.

what did the bank say when you said you felt threatened/intimidated into making the payment?

BadMotorhomeParent · 16/06/2023 20:42

Ireallywantsomechips · 16/06/2023 20:36

Oh OP how awful for you.

Definitely been scammed but tbh I would have been scared too and given the money back. But clearly there’s much braver people than us on the thread, shame you didn’t have anyone like that around at the time.

what did the bank say when you said you felt threatened/intimidated into making the payment?

Thank you for making me feel a bit better.

The Bank lifted the initial Fraud marker, so that I could pay it without (and yes, against their advice) a hold-up, should I choose/be stupid enough to.

They picked their target wisely.

OP posts:
BadMotorhomeParent · 16/06/2023 20:44

Tessisme · 16/06/2023 20:36

Veering off with the derail here, I and one of my sons have (or had in my case before going grey) black hair and blue eyes. We are Irish. It is one of the typical Irish/Celtic looks. Nothing wrong with OP saying that.

I think my g/ma always told me that - and I had a lovely Irish friend at College who had long black hair and amazing blue eyes.

Maybe I shouldn't have said "typical", if that's an issue.

OP posts:
BadMotorhomeParent · 16/06/2023 20:47

EarringsandLipstick · 16/06/2023 20:32

Explain a bit more about the payment bit - how did they make the online transfer?

We sat in the motorhome and he - having got my bank details - made a FP, which went in straight away.
I admit I rang the bank afterwards to check that it was genuine and couldn't be clawed back.

All too smooth.

I sent the money back to a different account (brother).

OP posts:
EarringsandLipstick · 16/06/2023 20:52

Tessisme · 16/06/2023 20:36

Veering off with the derail here, I and one of my sons have (or had in my case before going grey) black hair and blue eyes. We are Irish. It is one of the typical Irish/Celtic looks. Nothing wrong with OP saying that.

I'm not saying you can't have that colouring & be Irish!

I'm saying it's not typical. Some Irish Travellers do have that colouring.

Most Irish people have pale skin & fair colouring, meaning fair as in light - medium brown hair, fair complexions.

I can't think of a single person I know with black hair & blue eyes. Any very dark-haired people I know have brown / hazel eyes.

EmpressMoo · 16/06/2023 20:53

If it is being scrapped, as they claim, I think you can check if there is a certificate of destruction... No idea how long it takes to be processed though.

I think you need to speak to the police. If a car is reported stolen, I believe it is flagged with the DVLA so if they are scammers who sell it on, it will show up as stolen when the new owner tries to register it.

What did you do with the log book?

EarringsandLipstick · 16/06/2023 20:56

Ireallywantsomechips · 16/06/2023 20:36

Oh OP how awful for you.

Definitely been scammed but tbh I would have been scared too and given the money back. But clearly there’s much braver people than us on the thread, shame you didn’t have anyone like that around at the time.

what did the bank say when you said you felt threatened/intimidated into making the payment?

That's a bit snide of you - the 'braver posters'.

I'd be easily intimidated too.

So much so there isn't a chance I'd have conducted a major transaction with random men who called to my door!

It's not bravery - it's just basic steps most people would take. I'm not doubting OP just flabbergasted she so easily took all the steps she did.

Also, as you know, she didn't tell the bank she was intimidated - that's the whole point! The bank tried to ask her if she was being.

SheSaidHummingbird · 16/06/2023 20:58

There may be something to using a third person (you) to transfer funds from one man's account into another.

Isthisit22 · 16/06/2023 21:00

BadMotorhomeParent · 16/06/2023 20:47

We sat in the motorhome and he - having got my bank details - made a FP, which went in straight away.
I admit I rang the bank afterwards to check that it was genuine and couldn't be clawed back.

All too smooth.

I sent the money back to a different account (brother).

Oh dear. This is probably money laundering as you’ve effectively ‘cleaned’ the money for them and given them a camper van.
Nothing you can do now so no point in dwelling on it. Onwards and upwards

EarringsandLipstick · 16/06/2023 21:00

SheSaidHummingbird · 16/06/2023 20:58

There may be something to using a third person (you) to transfer funds from one man's account into another.

That is a very good point.

EarringsandLipstick · 16/06/2023 21:02

ValenciaOrange · 16/06/2023 20:56

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4824659-car-scam-advice?postsby=HaveIbeenscammed

Same thing happened to another poster recently.
I'm sorry this has happened to you and that you have lost money. It's a horrible feeling knowing you've been scammed.

It's not quite the same. That OP was selling the car, it wasn't a random transaction.

Reading the chain is events there which is a little different, I have read of similar scenarios, carried out by Irish Travellers (not obviously saying all Travellers of course). That probably tallies with OP's description.

EmpressMoo · 16/06/2023 21:02

I sent the money back to a different account (brother).

Was the surname the same?

Faster payments can be recalled if they are fraudulent. I believe there is a scam where the payment to you is made from stolen bank details then they ask for a refund to a different account, you transfer the money then the real owner of the bank account reports the fraud and the money is taken back.

riotlady · 16/06/2023 21:23

Why are you willing to listen to mumsnet telling you this was a bad idea but not the fraud man at the bank, who presumably knows what he’s talking about!

spongebunnyfatpants · 16/06/2023 21:39

Unfortunately it's a common scam.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, you should have made them sign a receipt that stated it was sold as seen and that they would be not refund if anything happened.
Definitely report it to the police, even if it's only for a crime number, which may help you get you money back.