To say no to social services re: my niece and nephews...

[mrsneate]

To cut a long story short, this is the fourth time in 9 years social services are involved with my brother and his children.

The first time. I drove 200 miles with no notice to collect Brother and his three kids. They lived with me for 8 months. It was hell. Small 3 bed house, 3 children of my own and my ex husband (we were still married) I supported them all financially, got them into schools, he was then given a council property, the children were taken off the register (on it because of their mum)

Fast forward 3 years, a neighbour reported him for various things. They were put back on the register, my brother worked with them, I supported him.

18 months ago, 2am police knock on my door with my eldest nephew. (16 at this point!) him and dad had gotten into a physical fight, could I take him, of course I said yes, the next day social worker came round, when police had entered their property. It was t fit to live in. Stinking dirty, rubbish everywhere.

Me and my SIL (other brothers wife) went round, and blitzed his house, I did 20 loads of washing, 16 dishwasher cycles. The house was spotless.

They asked me to take all 3. I couldn't, I work full time night shifts and was a single parent, my nephew was with me for 10 weeks with no support from
Social services or my brother financial or otherwise, then my nephew was 17 and could decide he wanted to go home. He went home. Case was closed

This week, I randomly had a phone call from a social worker. There had been an anonymous report from someone that he was leaving the youngest alone for long periods (she's 11) and there was no food in the house. He's drinking all the time, the house is a state.

I only ever see my brother these days when he pops to my house with my niece. She always looks clean.

They told me it's looking like it's going down the route of removing the children (11 and 16?) and would I be in a position to take them in, until he decides to cooperate and work with them, told them no, although I'm no longer single, my fiancé works away for months at a time and I still work night shifts, and still only live in a 3 bed house with 2 of my boys (oldest has moved out) she got really arrogant with me after that. I pointed out they need to stop closing the case, keep them on the register.

But guilt is eating me up, there has been a suggestion they go back to their mother. But that will be a disaster. I have text my brother and offered to help him clean the house. Again, but I am
Pissed off with him, and it's annoying me that he keeps having passes because he's a male single parent! He works school hours and earns good money, he's not skint.

What would you do?

Told me they are my responsibility and I should have been more of a support for my brother so it didn't get to this point again

Wow. I hope the cunt who told you that is short of a nurse or two if they ever need to go to hospital. I take it they know you are a nurse right? Jesus we still have a long way to go in this country SS as well as blokes blaming and looking for the next available vagina so they can save £££££

I've got the tenor of some of the responses you've been getting and I think a lot of them should just fuck off.

You have supported your undeserving brother and his selfish ex repeatedly! If neither of them will take responsibility, why should you lose your career and negatively affect your own children, to cover their selfish arses? The more times you do it, the more times it will be expected.

It's shit for those kids but you haven't caused that - their useless parents have. They might actually benefit from stable fostercare after what they have been through.

I think you just have to harden your heart and say no. You can support your niece and nephew as much as you are able to, but do not give up your career and do not put this on your own kids. If you give up your career, it will follow you all your life, in terms of pension etc, and do you think that useless fucker of a brother will be there for you? Not a chance!

Does your brother earn enough to pay for boarding school for the youngest? It would then leave the holidays only when help would be needed. Not that the rest of the family should have to help but it would be manageable and there would be stability for your niece.

@Hopelesscynic, I'm a foster carer and I can assure you Foster Carers are not generously paid. They get more than kinship carers yes but not generously paid.

I did this, she suggested my boys father take them whilst I work. We've been divorced 8 years and it's only the past year or so things have been amicable with us,

Plus he has nothing to do with my family members anymore other than our shared children. She was so brazen when she suggested it

He doesn't earn enough for that.

He's going to college in sept but will still live at home. Even if he goes off to uni when he's 18. I'd have to somehow fund this! As well as my own child who is the same age.

Got to agree.

Please don’t beat yourself up op. You’ve gone above and beyond.

You cant have them. Ss can see you waivering and wanting to help, so they’ll keep pressurising because they can close the case once again.

OP don't feel bad for not being able to do it. My nephews were in a similar situation and removed from the home, I now have one living with me and it's a lot. It's not even the financial side as I do get money for him but there's just so much more to it. It has to be something you can commit to 110% without guilt as there is so much involved. There are so many hoops to jump through with minimal support, the kids have trauma and behavioural issues and the parent is doing everything they can to make things so much more difficult just because they can. Do not let anyone guilt you, you taking them in under duress would just be a bad idea all round.

No and it is not in anyone's interests that you do. These poor children do not want to be in overcrowded accomodation.

OP this is awful, I’m so sorry. You’re not obliged to help. Simple as that. However, the fact that you’re asking the question makes me wonder whether you’ll find a way of justifying not helping to yourself or whether it will eat you up.

I wouldn’t give your career up for anything. But there are ways around some of the job challenges. There are places desperate for nurses which work easier patterns than you do (primary care in particular). Also, you could ask for a career break or a special arrangement. I would support this (as an NHS ops manager) to keep your skills in the service. Some sort of special arrangement might help you support the 11 year old for a time. The other option is to agree reduced hours (another special arrangement) with work, or even a career break, and then negotiate SS to pay you what they would do to a foster family. Just thoughts and I’m so sorry you’re having to consider this.

So sorry to hear what’s happening in your family and the pressures you have felt. I’m shocked at some of the responses you’ve had on here from people who clearly don’t understand the enormity of taking on children that are not your own (regardless of them being extended family). I am a children’s social worker and have worked for many years with children in care, including those who live with other family members like in your situation. Children who have experienced trauma and/or neglect are unfortunately not ‘straightforward’ to care for. They can often lack trust, may demonstrate disruptive behaviours, and may find it hard to keep friends and be on track with their education. Offering a clean home and food does not repair them! OP I hope a suitable solution is found for your nieces and nephews and that your brother is also supported with his own issues. You are trying your best for everyone - your own children, as well as your nieces and nephews will recognise this and understand your reasons for having to say no on this occasion.

YANBU to decline. It's unfortunate, but you simply don't have the resources to cope with two extra kids. It does sound like a significant part of the problem is your brother's relationship with alcohol. If he could get that sorted out, hopefully the rest will follow. And maybe you not picking up the pieces this time and letting the kids go into care will be the kick up the arse he needs.

I've had the same merry go round with SS, but with my own kids. My ex was primary carer, and I had our kids 3 days/nights a week. Every so often, my ex would go totally off the rails (drinking to oblivion, self harming, overdoses going awol etc). Each time a referral would get made to ss, they'd contact me, and I'd take the kids full time for 3 or 4 weeks, until ex had recovered. And each time ss would close the case on the basis that "dad steps in and takes over the care of the children when mum gets sick." Then we'd go back to the shared care routine.

I told ss that I was quite happy to have the kids full time, but I couldn't keep dropping everything (work predominantly, being self employed) and running to pick up the pieces each time (I believe a significant part of it was my ex trying to exert post breakup control over me, and this was the best way she could achieve it). It was obviously very unsettling for the kids to keep chopping and changing, and there was a fair bit of low level neglect from their mum. SS advised me to get legal advice about applying for residency. But lawyers would say I had no chance because the ss reports didn't conclude that the kids were at risk with mum (only because I was stepping in).

So in the end the only thing I could do was to call SS's bluff - the next time they phoned my with an emergency situation I initially told them I wouldn't take the kids. Obviously I had no intention of not taking them, but I had to say that in an attempt to break the cycle. I explained again why we couldn't just keep going on and on like this, then backed down and agreed to.

Anyway, it worked and ss changed their tune and backed me applying for full custody, which the court awarded without question. The SS (rather than cafcass) report was so damning on my ex that the judges couldn't do anything else.

I guess it's just how SS work, for better or worse. They're stretched, and so is the care system, so first (and easiest) resolution is to find a close relative to step in. Not ideal, and I can imagine in some situations it's out the fire and into the frying pan for some kids unfortunately.

Given how many people on here think it’s a straightforward decision and OP should take in the kids, I’m baffled at the shortage of foster carers in this country. Shouldn’t there be thousands? Or Could it be, just maybe, that people are preaching a pile of crap and they wouldn’t do any different from OP?!

How did you cope when you took in a relative’s kids? Maybe you could give OP some hints.

but I cannot believe the number of posters suggesting you just take them or go in and clean the house regularly

Do you mean zero? Because the number of posters who suggested OP cleaning the house (at least before your post, and possibly after) was zero... There were however multiple suggestions for the brother to hire a cleaner since he earns well. Which I think is fair

What about a State boarding school for the 11 year old? They do not charge for academic fees and just boarding fees only and even then can be subsidised. Can your brother pay for that or SW step in and facilitate this?

https://www.gov.uk/types-of-school/state-boarding-schools#:~:text=State%20boarding%20schools%20provide%20free,assess%20children's%20suitability%20for%20boarding.

This webpage has a guide to state boarding schools and list of then (about 35 in the country)
https://www.boarding.org.uk/for-parents-pupils/types-of-boarding-school/

I do not have any experience of what you are going through, so no advice just wishing the best for a positive outcome for your brother's kids.

You could become a kinship foster carer for them and receive help (monetary and other support)

www.gov.uk/looking-after-someone-elses-child

it doesn’t make sense the system- if you foster you get 500 a week per child- but if it’s one you know you get nothing.
surely it’s better for you to have them and get the money support

As has been pointed out above, OP’s circumstances make it unlikely she’d get through a viability assessment.

That’s not the case. If you take on a child are an alternative to them going into care, then the council has duties to you and the child, including financially supporting the placement. It’s really, really important that people wait to be asked and are clearly asking the question “will they go into care if I don’t do this” (and get the response documented) so that there can be no “confusion” or avoidance of duties further down the line.

In my LA you do get paid to foster relatives

Your brother needs to man up and take responsibilities for his own drinking. Long term that is the best sustainable positive outcome.
Help clean up the house. Arrange for your brother to join AA.
Seek SS help for services to assist him. What cleaners are available?
Are there meals on wheels?
Is there a charity that will help brother attend AA meetings?
Do foster carers care part time for 11 year olds - a day or two per week?
Your brother needs to thank his family for past help but realise that his children are at risk unless he changes and takes control of many aspects of his life.
Will any area of SS support him to correct his drinking?

Otherwise, you can not give full time care. Have the kids for holiday sometimes to relieve foster carers and to maintain communication about whether the foster carers are suitable.

I don’t know if it’s been mentioned already OP but you could suggest a family group conference to the social worker (if they haven’t already) which could lots of you getting together, with support, to consider the options available for either caring for the children or supporting your brother to care for them.