To say no to social services re: my niece and nephews...

[mrsneate]

To cut a long story short, this is the fourth time in 9 years social services are involved with my brother and his children.

The first time. I drove 200 miles with no notice to collect Brother and his three kids. They lived with me for 8 months. It was hell. Small 3 bed house, 3 children of my own and my ex husband (we were still married) I supported them all financially, got them into schools, he was then given a council property, the children were taken off the register (on it because of their mum)

Fast forward 3 years, a neighbour reported him for various things. They were put back on the register, my brother worked with them, I supported him.

18 months ago, 2am police knock on my door with my eldest nephew. (16 at this point!) him and dad had gotten into a physical fight, could I take him, of course I said yes, the next day social worker came round, when police had entered their property. It was t fit to live in. Stinking dirty, rubbish everywhere.

Me and my SIL (other brothers wife) went round, and blitzed his house, I did 20 loads of washing, 16 dishwasher cycles. The house was spotless.

They asked me to take all 3. I couldn't, I work full time night shifts and was a single parent, my nephew was with me for 10 weeks with no support from
Social services or my brother financial or otherwise, then my nephew was 17 and could decide he wanted to go home. He went home. Case was closed

This week, I randomly had a phone call from a social worker. There had been an anonymous report from someone that he was leaving the youngest alone for long periods (she's 11) and there was no food in the house. He's drinking all the time, the house is a state.

I only ever see my brother these days when he pops to my house with my niece. She always looks clean.

They told me it's looking like it's going down the route of removing the children (11 and 16?) and would I be in a position to take them in, until he decides to cooperate and work with them, told them no, although I'm no longer single, my fiancé works away for months at a time and I still work night shifts, and still only live in a 3 bed house with 2 of my boys (oldest has moved out) she got really arrogant with me after that. I pointed out they need to stop closing the case, keep them on the register.

But guilt is eating me up, there has been a suggestion they go back to their mother. But that will be a disaster. I have text my brother and offered to help him clean the house. Again, but I am
Pissed off with him, and it's annoying me that he keeps having passes because he's a male single parent! He works school hours and earns good money, he's not skint.

What would you do?

I'm so sorry for you and his DC.

But you cannot do it. I am sure you will offer to have them over or take them places to keep family contact and support them as they get older.

You have to focus on your own DC first. Your time, money, space and energy is finite. If you go under through all this what happens to your DC then?

It's such an awful situation.

Maybe a long term solution is needed now, and you taking them is only delaying this process.

From your description of the 11 year olds behaviour it sounds like she has needs that go well beyond the capability of a well meaning relative with their own demanding job. Agree with PP that a failed placement will do more harm than good.

I would tell your DB ( who needs a very harsh reality check,) that if he doesn't want his kids to end up in the care system. He has to financially help you to house/feed/clothe them long term.

You don't mention how able he is to function or what his take is on this ?

Assuming he is able but incompetent/lazy/is an alcoholic he needs to take responsibilty, get help and be willing to pay for you to help bring up his kids.

Personally l would be really blunt.

YANBU
You can't offer the care and support these children need and deserve. You don't have the time, you don't have the space and taking in your DNs would be detrimental to them, to you, to your children.
Your brother is a grown man, he and his children are not your responsibility.
I understand that SS and SWs are overwhelmed and underfunded but trying to bully you into an unsuitable arrangement because it will take the load off them is wrong.

I would be taking the 11 year old. I would feel guilty for not taking the 16yo too but it's reasonable to know your limits and stick to them. There's no point stretching yourself beyond breaking point and letting down your own kids as well as the bonus extras. A 16 yo who has had a chaotic last few years is going to be a huge challenge to effectively parent wherever they are and it's OK to know that the task is beyond you.

This isn’t me saying take them, if you can’t you can’t. There’s no judgement here.

however, the supportive living houses are rife for grooming, for county lines etc. as a pp says, stay in their lives some how. Your brothers a shit an absolute shit.

Op I read your posts. Tbh, it sounds like you made your mind up, and are using this thread to justify it to yourself because you feel guilty. There's no answer, you have to work if out yourself. Between a career and two vulnerable children I'd choose the children. On your deathbed, what will you regret more? Having your career or abondaning two kids? All the kids are not so young, its really a few years of sacrifice. This is my personal opinion.

Really? The deathbed guilt trip?

So she takes the children, loses her job, and blows up her relationships with her partner and her own children (all things that would be very likely to happen, if you read OP’s posts). Do you not think those would be things she could end up regretting on her deathbed?

OP doesn’t need to post on here to justify herself, she can post just to vent. The fact that she won’t be guilted into changing her mind doesn’t mean she shouldn’t to can’t post. She’s made her mind up and doesn’t have to change it in order to appease anyone else.

How is she supposed to feed, house and clothe those vulnerable children without a career? How is she supposed to house them full stop- she doesn’t have room? What about her own children - she has explained how this will negatively affect them? The reality is that the OP would not be able - through no fault of her own - to do a good job of raising all 4 of the children involved here. And so instead of 2 children going into foster care- which can be a very good solution, all 4 children would have their lives seriously negatively affected. Honestly, a lot of the posts here are dramatising this as if these children are going to be on the streets if the OP doesn’t take them in, which is simply not the case. Social services are putting OP under pressure because it makes their lives easier if she takes them, that’s all (although frankly I’m shocked that they are pressuring her to take the children into an overcrowded housing situation where there is nobody home half the time to care for them - honestly, that calls for the social worker in question to be reported, but anyway).

A child in my - extended - family went into foster care under what were horrible circumstances as a pre teen. His was not an easy case. He stayed with the same foster family until recently when he became an adult, and honestly, it was the best thing for him, they supported him, cared for him, and enabled regular visits with his aunts and uncles.

What would i do? I’d take the kids. Family is everything and those kids need stability. It sucks that some people get dealt a rough hand with having to clean up after family members but on your deathbed i think you’d regret it more if you knew you could have done more.

It's not simply her career which would be at risk, though, it would be her own children who would suffer if her circumstances changed so drastically by having to take two difficult children in to a house not big enough for so many people and with absolutely no financial or physical help from the children's father or social services. Why should she try to save her neplings but at the same time put her own children at a disadvantage? If she were to be getting any outside help for this, perhaps she might think about doing it, but it seems as if the SW wants to guilt her into taking the children and making them all her responsibility, with absolutely no useful input from anyone else. That is actually morally wrong, to me.

Yanbu wishing you all the best x

OP needn't fear that death bed regret as she knows only too well that she CAN'T do more.

If they are taken into care they would hopefully be in a long term foster care placement. Foster carers have training and would have experience.

You’re a NICU nurse. Single parent of two.

That is more than enough.

I don't think OP needs to feel guilty, she has gone above and beyond already but the children do need someone willing and able to advocate for them and help them find the appropriate support and it doesn't seem like there is anyone other than OP willing to do that.

Even if the youngest children are taken into care (which sounds like it would be the best thing for the 11yo) the 19yo still needs professional support.

OP isn't just choosing between her career and her nephew/niece. She is also thinking of her own children. We don't know that OP looking after her nephew and niece would be a good thing for them in the long run but we do know it would be a negative for her own children.

@mrsneate
I went into care at 11 from an alcoholic mum neglecting me, pretty much exactly as you have described your brother. I didn't end up in foster care but was in a children's home and it was honestly the best thing that could have happened at that time in my life. The access to proper support and medical services, being fed 3 meals a day with no worries about how or who was going to organise it, a clean house and adults around who actually wanted to be there and support me was life changing. I know not all places are like that but a lot are. Group homes get a bad reputation from the few that are terrible but honestly I am so thankful to SS and the care staff for giving me a decent place to grow up in my teens compared to the absolute dire circumstances I had suffered in my birth mums care.

OP, just a thought. You say he earns well - he's not skint, just a feckless, selfish drunk. Something you could suggest to him and SS is that he gets paid help with the house and kids. A cleaner / housekeeper / nanny to come in three times a week or so and clean, check on kids, do some shopping, maybe cook some meals.

She doesn’t have to clean up after family members at all. That isn’t her responsibility.

She is taking care of her own children, who absolutely should be her priority. They’ve already been through the turmoil of their mother being in, and leaving, an abusive relationship, and one has SEN. THEY also need stability, and to not have their lives disrupted any more. So does OP.

If you don't feel able to cope dont take them. It is a perfectly reasonable decision under the circumstances. You have enough on your plate IMHO

Look, I understand what you are saying, OP’s own children being negatively affected, it is the Social Services that need to be taking care of them, in some cases it has turned out better for kids to be given to foster care etc. etc. One can equally argue that also in some cases foster care works out shit for children, that SS are shit themselves (sorry, under pressure), and in some cases own children won’t be too negatively affected but will actually be one big happy family. No-one can know or predict the actual result in ten years time, and no-one knows the personalities of people involved here, do you?

So what I am saying is, given these uncertainties, I would personally do what I could realistically have control over to reduce that uncertainty - which is taking an action to give them the best house I can. Yes that involves sacrifice. I would be willing to do that sacrifice, if the alternative was an uncertain future in foster care. Others can feel free to advice otherwise, this is what I feel and would do, given the information we have.

It's easy for people to say just take the kids but you don't have the space and it would really impact on your own children, surely?!

You've taken is kids in multiple times and you don't even get financial support for it?! Not many people can afford to take on 2 extra mouths to feed and have spare rooms for them, with not a penny in return!

Sorry but your own kids come first and this sounds like an enormous upheaval.

It's really understandable to feel guilty, OP. Try to remember that your kids count too.

Of course it's terrible that your nieces and nephews are going through this repeatedly. Your brother sounds like an absolute dick. I don't know how you manage to be civil to him, frankly.

Maybe if you and the rest of the family refuse to swoop in and sort his mess for him this time he might actually grow up!

I think it's a disgrace that the social worker made you feel so awful about a situation that is not of your doing. Shame on that person.
You've said over and over that you can't take the children this time, so that should be enough. I would meet with the children if you can, give them your details (if you feel you want to) and say that wherever they end up, you will be available to them at the end of the phone or by text, whatever works for them. You just can't take them in under your roof this time.
Try and stay in touch with the social worker if you can and if they will allow. You are concerned about the welfare of these children (more than their own father by the sounds of things) but you cannot accommodate them (space or with your time ) right now. Reading your posts @mrsneate , I am under the impression that if the situation was different, you wouldn't even need to think about this. But it's not. So you make your peace with your choice and do what you can going forwards.