To say no to social services re: my niece and nephews...

[mrsneate]

To cut a long story short, this is the fourth time in 9 years social services are involved with my brother and his children.

The first time. I drove 200 miles with no notice to collect Brother and his three kids. They lived with me for 8 months. It was hell. Small 3 bed house, 3 children of my own and my ex husband (we were still married) I supported them all financially, got them into schools, he was then given a council property, the children were taken off the register (on it because of their mum)

Fast forward 3 years, a neighbour reported him for various things. They were put back on the register, my brother worked with them, I supported him.

18 months ago, 2am police knock on my door with my eldest nephew. (16 at this point!) him and dad had gotten into a physical fight, could I take him, of course I said yes, the next day social worker came round, when police had entered their property. It was t fit to live in. Stinking dirty, rubbish everywhere.

Me and my SIL (other brothers wife) went round, and blitzed his house, I did 20 loads of washing, 16 dishwasher cycles. The house was spotless.

They asked me to take all 3. I couldn't, I work full time night shifts and was a single parent, my nephew was with me for 10 weeks with no support from
Social services or my brother financial or otherwise, then my nephew was 17 and could decide he wanted to go home. He went home. Case was closed

This week, I randomly had a phone call from a social worker. There had been an anonymous report from someone that he was leaving the youngest alone for long periods (she's 11) and there was no food in the house. He's drinking all the time, the house is a state.

I only ever see my brother these days when he pops to my house with my niece. She always looks clean.

They told me it's looking like it's going down the route of removing the children (11 and 16?) and would I be in a position to take them in, until he decides to cooperate and work with them, told them no, although I'm no longer single, my fiancé works away for months at a time and I still work night shifts, and still only live in a 3 bed house with 2 of my boys (oldest has moved out) she got really arrogant with me after that. I pointed out they need to stop closing the case, keep them on the register.

But guilt is eating me up, there has been a suggestion they go back to their mother. But that will be a disaster. I have text my brother and offered to help him clean the house. Again, but I am
Pissed off with him, and it's annoying me that he keeps having passes because he's a male single parent! He works school hours and earns good money, he's not skint.

What would you do?

Unfortunately not all places are as supportive. When I requested set shifts when I was a single parent it was refused. I managed to get a work life balance in place for it to be ignored for a long time and I was getting terrible shift patterns. They aren't the best now but thankfully my ex no longer works so can take the boys whenever I work.

They won't facilitate career breaks in my place. People have asked. Despite the fact we are often 6-8 nurses short each shift.

I'm paeds trained so primary care jobs are very few and far between. I could go to community but I would lose about £800 a month in enhancements and it's not something I've ever wanted to do. I went into nursing to work neonates. Because all of my boys spent time there.

If at all possible I would try to take the 11 year old in your situation. Could you put your boys together with the room divided in some way? 11 year old girl could not go with a 13 year old boy. Assuming the boys are already left at night while you work, and the 11 year old is used to being left, then the nights may not be a problem. Not ideal but she will be asleep and not be alone, not the same as being left all day and then all evening alone. If you feel that this is impossible then the sw should respect your decision however.

Sorry, missed the post that your boys aren't home when you work.

As a Social Worker, I would take the 11 year old. I think its so sad when children end up in care and feel rejected by their families. I'd hope if it was my children then my mum or sister would step in and adjust their lives accordingly, just like I would for my niece if it was needed. Foster care can be really unstable...and the 16 year old v v unlikely to go into foster care as they'd rather keep that space for a younger child. 16 can go into semi independent or supported living. Are they issuing care proceedings? Ask if you'd be considered a foster carer or is this a 'private family arrangement'. If they're not removing the kids they shouldn't be asking you to take them.. as a FC, you'd be paid and supported etc. As a private family arrangement I think I'd say no you need to formalise something as all the back qnd forth is unfair

I would take the 11year old, she could come to great harm in the care system. The 17 year lives in supported housing with you on standby if he needs support or help.

I could not let a child go into the care system, no. Can your sil take the other child? Or both?

If you could find a way to arrange bedrooms to take two children then could the 16 year old nephew be trusted to stay home to babysit overnight? Or might he disappear to friends'? It would be a huge ask to take two though, as it would probably involve one boy on a bed in the sitting room. The girl would need her own room in a house of boys.

My mum was in her late 50s and when the same happened to a sibling of hers. The two youngest children were already set to go to foster homes. My mum and dad both worked full time and we’re past having small children (they were nursery age) except their grandchildren on occasion. They took the children. SS worked with them along with their legal team they had payments from social services as they had a residency order to help financially as they suddenly had double nursery fees to find. The children shared a bedroom until my younger sibling moved out. It was difficult for them but now some 20 years later to see them living their lives etc it is wonderful to see. They would not have had the same opportunities if they had stayed or god forbid ended up in the care system for longer. Contact with their birth parents diminished and they class myself and my siblings as their siblings and our parents as their mum and dad. They are just the same as the rest of us children of the family. It was not an easy decision for them as I am sure it’s not for you. The oldest child was 16 and got helped with housing and a flat via social services. I would ask for a meeting with SS to see what the options are.

It’s a heartbreaking situation OP. SS will be pushing you because trying to find and fund foster placements is difficult. However, I think the reality is your nieces and nephews need some stability, they’re going to need help, abuse will have affected them and that’s not going to be solved by you taking them in. The harsh reality is it will be easier to access help for them inside the system in foster care rather than you just taking them in. Sofa beds in the lounge won’t work as some have suggested, they’re going to need stability not an overcrowded house. You can still arrange to see them and visit them, it’s not an all or nothing.

Why would you need to quit your job?
The 16 year old can be with the sister on the nights you work. Surely he would prefer that to her ending up in care for 7 years??

Troubled 16 year olds are unlikely to spend every evening at home babysitting little sisters.

I apologise if this has already been answered but how has the house gotten into such a state if a 19yo and a 16yo are living there with the 11yo?

In your own words your brother is hardly ever home so it cannot all be his mess. It sounds like the oldest children need some support with day to day living.

Perhaps this is something that could be arranged with SS and yourself?

If the only issue is the mess and the lack of food this can be resolved without removing the children.

As an ex foster career I would say no don't take them. Your own children must be your priority.

I really feel you have to put your own children first in all of this, and don't be guilted into doing something that would impact them negatively and that you might regret, and find it difficult to unwind later down the road. From what I know of SS once they have foisted the 'problem' onto you they will see it as job done, and you will be left to cope, regardless of if you are actually coping or not. I would actually think it would be more traumatic for them to be placed with you and for that to then fail - to me it sounds like you already know it would be incredibly difficult for you all, and to take something like this on when you don't sound the least bit confident you could make it work has disaster written all over it.

As sad as the situation is for your DNs, you didn't bring them into the world and they are not your responsibility. That's not to say you shouldn't help in some way, or advocate for them, of course you should, and there will be ways you can help without having to take them in. But not to the detriment of the life you have worked so hard to create for your own family.

My pay would be cut dramatically if I dropped to two shifts a week, we wouldn't qualify for UC as my partner earns a decent wage, but we need two two decent wage to afford our house. We bought it based on our current salaries and the fact we are both in stable long term jobs.

I have taken in one nephew before and despite fighting and shouting loud I got zero support. I had to find it myself. My brother also paid nothing for him for the 3 months he was here.

I would let tbe kids go into Foster care. They will have their own space and a safe clean place. I would also arrange regular family time with them each week, eg tea at yours, a trip to McDonalds etc to stay in close contact.

My 16 year old has adhd, it's not safe for him to share a room

They go to their fathers, I won't even let him babysit my 13 year old for a few hours as he's not capable my children have boundaries. My brothers children's sadly don't x

It seems that things haven’t improved over the years.

When I was 9 my aunt had a mental health crisis. We were a family of 4 children in a 3 bedroom house, and my m7m was asked to take my 3 cousins in, indefinitely. My mum was registered disabled with arthritis.

My mum said she could only take one in, and the oldest, 9 months younger than me came, the younger 2 went into care. This was just before the summer holidays. She only stayed with us until school went back as she found out she would be in the year below me at school, and on a separate site. I was too young to be aware of when her siblings went home.

I would want to take them, but I have more space. You can’t just pop them in and create space. You can’t make your shifts fit around the additional children. The suggestion that your ex should take the extra kids when you are working is utterly ridiculous, but I think it shows how desperately short of placements they are, that they will try to force kinship placements.

You really have stepped up in the past, but if you cannot do more, then you cannot.

@mrsneate To be honest I’d suggest you step away from your thread before you’re bullied and harassed into leaving your job.

Can’t believe someone suggested boarding school for the 11 year old - on the assumption that you would then only see them over holidays! Boarding is hard work for parents or guardians - you’re running backwards and forwards from the school constantly - for picking up, dropping off (for an 11 year old probably weekly or at most two weekly), concerts, plays, sports matches, taking out for lunch or tea .. It’s not the 1940s - you don’t just deposit them in September and then not see them until Christmas.

It’s a great pity your niblings are in this situation. I’m sure you’ll continue to do everything you can to support them - but it mustn’t be at the expense of your own sanity and children.

You’ve done a huge amount already. You can’t sacrifice your own, or your children’s, mental health by taking in children you don’t have the space or time to care for. It’s unfair for anyone to try and pressure you or make you feel guilty.

I think your best bet is to support the 19 year old, who sounds sensible and who presumably you have the closest relationship to. He is old enough to support his siblings.

I don't think you're helping long term by stepping in whenever things get to crisis point.

Please prioritise your own immediate family.

SS will do anything to avoid putting children into foster or care homes as it's very expensive. My friend had a similar situation with her brother, SS even rang up my 70yr old father, who'd just had a heart bypass (they knew this), to see if he could take his primary school child who had severe behavioural issues and act as a kinship foster arrangement. If you can't do this due to work or space you'll need to be very firm with them, they will try to play on your emotions.

Foster care sounds like it would be best for your dn&n as it will give them the stability they need.

The social worker needs to focus her pushiness on your brother to get him to step up, and to put measures in place to support him parenting his children.

Getting you to take in your niece is the quick easy option for the social worker and the council’s budget, but it will be to your and your children’s detriment, and ruinous for your financial and housing situation and your career.

You cannot leave a 16 year old overnight in charge of an 11 year old. Social services themselves told me that,

They also have had no rules or boundaries in place for many years so he's not responsible enough for that, and that's a lot to put on a 16 year old. I wouldn't even put that in my own 16 year old

You don’t need to justify and go into all the reasons why you can’t do it OP.

You’ve provided above and beyond support to the family as it is, what’s being proposed now is unrealistic and unsustainable.

I would highlight why being with the mother will put the DC at even greater risk, but firmly state you are not in a position to take them and repeat.

I have no useful suggestions. It sounds a heartbreaking situation.

But I wanted to say OP, that you are obviously a good, kind, caring and loving aunt to those children. You've been a steady person in their life.

No matter what happens, you seem to be one of the few people they can feel lucky to have in their lives.

Don't ever let anyone tell you or make you think you've been anything less.

You need to put your own children and life first.

You are right that SS should keep the Dc on the register, and give some fucking support rather than leaving him to it and then phoning you up! Meet with them, get it all written down in the case notes why you can’t have the Dc and that you have suggested numerous times that the DC need to be kept on the register. If they won’t do this then the Dc will have to go into foster care but that is NOT your fault.

I’d also speak to both Dc and explain why they can’t come and live with you. It’s important they hear the truth from you.