To say no to social services re: my niece and nephews...

[mrsneate]

To cut a long story short, this is the fourth time in 9 years social services are involved with my brother and his children.

The first time. I drove 200 miles with no notice to collect Brother and his three kids. They lived with me for 8 months. It was hell. Small 3 bed house, 3 children of my own and my ex husband (we were still married) I supported them all financially, got them into schools, he was then given a council property, the children were taken off the register (on it because of their mum)

Fast forward 3 years, a neighbour reported him for various things. They were put back on the register, my brother worked with them, I supported him.

18 months ago, 2am police knock on my door with my eldest nephew. (16 at this point!) him and dad had gotten into a physical fight, could I take him, of course I said yes, the next day social worker came round, when police had entered their property. It was t fit to live in. Stinking dirty, rubbish everywhere.

Me and my SIL (other brothers wife) went round, and blitzed his house, I did 20 loads of washing, 16 dishwasher cycles. The house was spotless.

They asked me to take all 3. I couldn't, I work full time night shifts and was a single parent, my nephew was with me for 10 weeks with no support from
Social services or my brother financial or otherwise, then my nephew was 17 and could decide he wanted to go home. He went home. Case was closed

This week, I randomly had a phone call from a social worker. There had been an anonymous report from someone that he was leaving the youngest alone for long periods (she's 11) and there was no food in the house. He's drinking all the time, the house is a state.

I only ever see my brother these days when he pops to my house with my niece. She always looks clean.

They told me it's looking like it's going down the route of removing the children (11 and 16?) and would I be in a position to take them in, until he decides to cooperate and work with them, told them no, although I'm no longer single, my fiancé works away for months at a time and I still work night shifts, and still only live in a 3 bed house with 2 of my boys (oldest has moved out) she got really arrogant with me after that. I pointed out they need to stop closing the case, keep them on the register.

But guilt is eating me up, there has been a suggestion they go back to their mother. But that will be a disaster. I have text my brother and offered to help him clean the house. Again, but I am
Pissed off with him, and it's annoying me that he keeps having passes because he's a male single parent! He works school hours and earns good money, he's not skint.

What would you do?

Don't feel bad. You did your best to support your brother and his children. He needed to have met you half way, he failed again. All this is his fault only. My friend's a social worker for children, she said they'll told to try and force relocation of neglected children with other safe family members. If they say no, throughout then they get placed into Foster care. It's because they're looking out for the children's best interests, and saving money as Foster care is good but expensive for them. You have to keep saying no, I have a job and work shifts. She obviously thinks youll give in, because you've had them before. If she continues to ask, tell her that you're feeling harassed and to stop asking you.

This sounds sp difficult for you op 💐. I've read yr posts but not whole thread.
As an alternative, could you spend lots of time with ur brother eg supporting him? Or has that ship sailed?

It sounds awful for all of you. You can’t take them but I understand the heartbreak.

Hi OP I’m a social worker.
6 well done for all the support you have given it can’t of been easy.
I don’t have any advice other than if you can’t have them please don’t do it out of guilt,you have done as much as you can and it would be counter productive for you to take them on and place stresses on your own family.
The SW should be trying to engage with your brother to keep them at home ,it will be every difficult for her to remove the 16 year old, as the child’s views are massively taken into account, she will know this fact.As for the 11 year old they will be wary of separation,they will be looking for family as an easy option.They should of worked better with your brother YEARS ago.

This is such a tough situation all round. You have already done far far more than most families would. The reality is that your brother shows no sustained motivation to parent consistently and safely and the youngest especially will need a safe base for at least 7 years. Your brother is not engaging with CSC or with family support currently. People saying anything else, in my view, are extreme naive.

I don’t work for CSC but do work with children/families with these experiences. In terms of their mental health, it is far better to think carefully about what you could realistically offer for the next 7 years and to do that well (much better to eg have them round for a meal/sleepover once a fortnight and to be able to commit to that around your shifts). They sound like they have a good relationship with you. Do what you can to maintain that in the long term but well below a level that would mean you burn out. If they experience one adult in their world who is consistent and sticks to their word that is much better in my experience. Children value honesty and want to know what is on offer and I think a calm kind conversation from you with them about how tough their lives are and what you can do is helpful.

In my experience it is far more damaging to over-promise what is doable and for it to fall apart. This would really add to their sense of rejection and of being unloved and unmanageable. And I cannot see how you could offer what they need in the medium/long term. You have already tried this in the short/medium term and it hasn’t been enough for your brother to turn things around or for CSC to put in an adequate level of support.

you do not have the physical space, time or energy to give the children the therapeutic placement they need even if you really wanted to, and I think you are right that if you attempted it (again) the impact on your own children would be great.

I would suggest writing to the team manager and allocated social worker (copied to the DSL at school) and list the support you have already offered over the years, your own children’s needs and be clear about what you can offer so it can be added to a support plan , but reiterate that due to housing, your own work pattern, your children’s own care needs and the clear need for long term planning you are not on a position to provide more than this.

If you don’t want to do it again then that’s your choice. As someone who grew up exposed to a very similar situation, it’s exhausting for the family, I get it.
But I don’t understand why you keep citing quitting your job as the reason. Why would you need to quit your job?
The 16 year old can be with the sister on the nights you work. Surely he would prefer that to her ending up in care for 7 years??

This is realistically what I would do if I was supported financially

This - and paid foster carers would (I hope!) have support form social services which @mrsneate wasn't receiving. SS were just using her as a dumping ground to save themselves work and money.

We all have our limits - and sometimes the line we have t draw may seem harsh, but we need to protect ourselves physically, mentally and emotionally.

Agree with another suggestion that (if possible) nice could visit OP once or twice a week, but this must be so exhausting time after time, and so demoralising when nothing changes and the SS just close the case and the brother lets things go again and the kids get reported and the SS steps in and OP sorts it out and the kids go back, and the SS just close the case and the brother let's th- well, it's <ad infinitum>, isn't it?

You are doing the right thing to step away, OP. You obviously care about your family, but sometimes enough is enough.

Support them as much as you can - but from a distance this time. And if necessary tell SS to FO (in those words if you must). You need a life, too.

*neice, not nice

I think people are missing the point that the OP has a kid with ADHD.

There is absolutely no way I would do this. It would massively impact that child in particular.

OP honestly this isn't for you to fix. You are doing what you can given your circumstances. All you can be is a stable person for his kids when you are able to have them visit for dinner etc.

I feel so sorry for them, your brother clearly isn't getting what he needs from the SW.

YANBU - you have done your best and there's only so much you can do.
I had a similar situation with my brother and his DP. SS came to us to discuss us taking in my DN, who at that time was 4. Looking after her would have been fine, we have room and money. However we had such a fraught time dealing with my DB and his mad crazy partner that my wife flat refused to get us involved due to the stress. I was just getting over trauma from getting involved with their shit and being repeatedly emotionally abused. She was absolutely right. DN now lives with her aunt (mum's sister) and is flourishing.
My DB and his partner are both not doing well, but we are NC with both of them, for very good reasons. Hell mend them.
Flowers for all you've done OP.

So what’s the point in asking then ?

I looked into foster caring a while back as we have a spare room and we felt like we had the capacity to help another child.

I came to the conclusion after going to an introductory session to learn more that we simply were not suitable people to do it. We work too many hours to be able to drop off/pick up every day at school. We have commitments to volunteer for various things, take kids to activities, to help out with some older family members, to work unusual or unsociable hours at times for projects/busy periods and we are a bit too authoritarian at times because we struggle to fit everything in and we lose patience when stressed.

It sounds like you are in a similar position in that your work/other commitments mean you are not the most suitable person to look after kids outside your own immediate family that might have lots of additional need for support, patience, reassurance etc and that your home also isn’t suitable to have extra kids.

If there were the option for your two boys to share a room while your 11 year old niece took the smallest one and you would get some level of funding and you could use that funding for the 19 year old to come and be at the house when you were working (& he was reliable enough to manage that) I would possibly be willing to try that but I’m not convinced that it’s necessarily the best solution as it sounds like it might not be a temporary thing.

I think you are being very sensible to consider all the practicalities and not just jump in with an emotional response to want to help as in the longer term the practicalities are really important

What a bloody hard and emotional situation OP. I feel for you - you’re doing what you can with resources that are already stretched.

The kids need stability. It doesn’t sound like you’re in a position where you can do that so I don’t think taking them in would be the safest, kindest or sensible thing to do.

Take care - i can understand the guilt but you’ve done ao much

I have been in a similar position.

I ended up putting the phone down on the social worker and refusing to take her calls. The pressure was unrelenting.

I guess they can close one of their eleventy billion cases if they can just get you to say yes. But you obviously can’t do it, and it wouldn’t be in the best interests of the children (ALL the children)

Stick to your guns, but stay in regular contact with DNs

It might be best for the oldest to look after them but he'd need a lot of support from ss.

Would they be willing to do that? Find housing for the 3 of them. Provide therapy and some type of carer payment.

Can you talk to him and see what he thinks. He let them in and was honest about the situation.

Support from the sidelines OP?

Can you and your other brother take one child each? Your brother is a waste of space but these children's are innocent. I wouldn't haven't them back the second time when I seen the state of the house personally.

I would put in writing what you have done and the lack of support and finances. As well as everything else and the fact they kept closing the case.

I would maybe do it if they paid me as a foster cater and put extra funding in place. It’s fine to draw the line - point out what you did and the lack of support from SS and the damage to you etc

I did know someone who had the same - 2 children dropped on her every other year, no support and no help, no money. On the 3 go SS got stroppy and said all sorts of things and emotionally blackmail type etc and my friend called her out on it. Put the phone down- changed her number and put in a formal complaint. She has no contact with her sister now and little with the children.

the reality is they have two parents and neither of them are decent parents so they need to be removed permanently

It’s a real shame they weren’t taken into care 9 years ago as then they might have had a chance at a more stable life. If they’re taken into care now it’s unlikely they’ll ever settle and it’ll be a series of foster homes until they age out of the system. Is there no way that you or another family member could help support them? Fuck your useless brother, I mean just the kids

I’m sorry but your own DC have to
come first. I’ve lived with 5 children in a 3 bedroom house. It’s a nightmare! you have no room for them even if you didn’t have a child with ADHD but you do.

you don’t have to set yourself on fire to keep others warm.

support from the side lines as much as you can but don’t be guilted or bullied into taking in DB children you don’t have room for and to whom you can’t offer the time they need (not to mention the financial aspect)

I would help in any way you can with washing/dinner etc if he gets his arse in gear, but I wouldn't take them in either in your circumstances. Sorry you are in this position.

I’d take theKnob yes. I really feel for them.

Maybe they could take the kids?

If you can’t take them can you support your brother in different ways - help round house, checking in, maybe occasionally having the kids to sleep over.