To believe in forced castration?

[SchoolShenanigans]

Sorry if this has been done before, but AIBU to think forced castration should be in place for paedophiles and people of child bearing age who have been convicted of any form of child abuse?

I get people have bodily autonomy; but the protection of children surely comes first?!

Just read the thread where a couple have already lost one child to care, are neglectful to another (disturbed) child, with social services intervention, and now pregnant with another.

I also have a family member who has 6 children with different inappropriate fathers, in and out of prison, social services involvement and criminal convictions. Providing a shit childhood for multiple innocent children who will be affected for life.

Why are we so again castration as a mechanism to stop further reproduction in damaging environments?

In many cases, people with prior child abuse convictions just have subsequent babies immediately removed. What's the point? Just stop them being able to have kids and the problems sorted?

Now I think that one was satire.

Agreed. I’m already familiar with the Stanford Experiment, which is horrifying.

I understand how someone could be capable of maiming or murdering in self defence, or in retaliation for the murder or maiming of a loved one, but this is something else entirely. Torture is an abhorrent crime, maybe even more abhorrent when state sanctioned.

It may suit you, and other posters, to call me a barbarian, that's fine, it really doesn't change my view as it's not the case. If you knew me, you'd know I'm far from it.

I don't want to chop balls off to punish people. Or steralise women to take away their rights. That's not what I meant at all and I made that pretty clear, whether people chose to acknowledge that or not.

I'm pro rights. I'm very much a live and let live, but NOT if it's harming others. And in the real world, the rights of some have to trump the rights of others, and the rights of good people should trump those of bad.

There are so many adults out there, of both sexes, who have child after child without giving two shits about them. They have proven they're neglectful at best and abusive at worst. They lose their children, MAY go to prison for a few years, then back out reproducing again. Those who don't go to prison obviously don't have the hold up and can try for another baby straight away. In other cases, the parents may have such bad addictions that it's not a conscious choice. Or yes, a woman may be in an abusive relationship herself and can't navigate a way out.

I'm advocating for the rights of the babies and children born into those situations, time and again. Those who end up in supportive adoptive families are lucky but sadly there's thousands of kids who are bumped around from foster placement to care home without any consistency, love or guidance. They are all too often taken advantage of and have, quite frankly, a horrific childhood and often many issues that prolong into their adult life.

Reproduction is a right, but so is the right to not live the type of life that many children in care are forced into.

It's ironic that people are happy with imprisonment, the ultimate curtailment of freedom, even when misjustices can happen, but suddenly, when it's questioned if they should have the right to bring ANOTHER poor kid into the mix, suddenly their rights are of upmost importance.

The only difference here, is that one is legal and a social norm and the other isn't.

I truly don't believe that so many of you don't see a need to stop a women, who can't look after existing children, to have further children. And I don't believe it because when there are posts about this exact situation, it's always a resounding "why's she having MORE children?!".

I don’t condone mistreatment of children in any way OP. There’s a problem that needs a solution. It’s your solution that is barbaric.

Exactly which people do you want to have forcibly sterilised? People who have committed crimes? People who you think might commit crimes?

What makes you think that you or the state will be any better at deciding who is allowed to have children and who isn't?

In your view it seems that the only way to deal with drug addicts is to forceably sterilise them rather than get them into properly funded treatment programs so they can recover and live better lives. It is a fundamentally misanthropic and authoritarian view of the world. You have already decided that these people are beyond salvation and therefore their rights as human beings are now null and void.

The fact that you cannot see the difference between imprisonment, a temporary condition, and the permanent removal of someone's ability to have children is either willfully ignorant or a rhetorical gambit.

The solution to improving the lives of vulnerable children is not enforced medical sterilisation of anyone deemed "unfit" to have children. It is in the proper funding and establishment of long term programmes to positively intervene in lives and turn them around.

the rights of good people should trump those of bad.

Quite a lot of people have said this, and some have gone on to attempt to enact it.

History generally doesn't look kindly on them.

I don't think you're a barbarian, OP, but I do think you're incredibly ignorant.

I'm advocating for the rights of the babies and children born into those situations, time and again

By stopping them existing at all

There's a difference between thinking someone shouldn't have more children and actually believing that right should legally be taken away for whatever reason.

Especially if it were to become the responsibility of a government such as the one we currently have who have no interest in funding things such as mental health support and other early interventions which could help some families get out of those cycles.

The solution to improving the lives of vulnerable children is not enforced medical sterilisation of anyone deemed "unfit" to have children. It is in the proper funding and establishment of long term programmes to positively intervene in lives and turn them around

this in spades!

@SchoolShenanigans do you honestly support and trust this government (or any really) to have the right and power to decide who can have children and who can't?

Totally agree.

Its outrageous Boris Johnson keeps having children with so many different women.... and as PM found providing for them all a financial strain.

If we allow the government to lock people in prison for the rest of their life, is that not taking their body autonomy from them?

No government should be given the power to do that.

I speak as someone whose parents were addicts and abusive. I’m not glad I exist - but I am glad the state didn’t have a say in it.

We are not in the Dark Ages.

Put it to a vote, give the people their say. I think there would be less crime if we prevented criminals from breeding.

There'd be less crime if we all lived under house arrest and never went out except under armed guard.

Yes but that wouldn't be fair to law-abiders.

Why not? They'd live in safety.

there's the slight problem of wrongful convictions... Imagine being out to death/castrated and you're innocent...?

It happens all over, and people have been put to death and later exonorated

Yes but they would lose their freedom. The consequences of crime must be borne as much as possible by the law-breakers themselves, and not by law-abiders who have done nothing wrong.

Ah, so, your daughter had a slight bender and ended up shop lifting a bottle of vodka at 19 at 2am, from Tesco on adare from mates.

Now, 5 days later, she's being wheeled in to a surgical room and having her womb removed. And her boyfriend is being castrated because he was present and abetted.

Imagine being killed or raped by a criminal who has been convicted previously and then released? Why should the law-abider have to take the risk?

I would set the bar a lot higher than a single shoplifting offence.

But if the bar was set that low, and your daughter knew what the consequences were, and did it anyway, I'd say she deserved all she got.

Imagine you've been wrongfully convicted of a crime, and as you get your lovely lethal injection and you silently say goodbye to your children and consider the prospect of them growing up without a mother who they wrongly think murdered someone.... I'm sure you'll die quite content knowing that it is all worth the risk of the justice system being wrong once in a while.

Ok, so what's the bar set at?