White woman In a headscarf, would you stare?

[Tooshyshyhushhushidoi]

And conservative/ ‘modest’ clothing. Would you stare? Would you look twice?

context to follow :)

Really? I mean really? English isn’t your first language, you’re going with that…

….

i can’t even

I can see from some of your posts that English is maybe not your first language and so am feeling disposed to overlook your misrepresentation of what has been circled in @DarrellRiversCriminalBehaviourOrder
post

Careful, your true colours are showing. Could you give me some examples which make you think English isn't my first language? I have a first in English and another subject from a top UK university and I draft complex agreements for a living. Trust me when I say that I could outclass you in English any day of the week.

Hilarious that you think you can impress me with office jargon like 'circled in'. Fits my image of you exactly.

The rest of your post is the same old blah blah blah.

So desperate, isn't it?

If you keep attacking people they are likely to keep defending themselves. Perhaps that can help you work out how to find the “off switch”.

Actually it’s @Ifeelsuchafool who is attacking Muslims by saying women who wear hijab are inviting attention. This is effectively victim-blaming, given the racism and Islamophobia that women wearing the hijab face.

And thankfully there are people like @DarrellRiversCriminalBehaviourOrder who willing to call her out on it.

Weird that you want Darell to find an off-switch for kindness.

How is “circled in” office jargon? @DarrellRiversCriminalBehaviourOrder literally drew a circle (well, more of a wobbly oval) around @Ifeelsuchafool’s words. 😂😂

I’m confused by the English language comment because your English reads perfectly fluently to me although you have yet to use it to add anything of value to the conversation. Instead you just relentlessly attack and insult other posters. What are you getting out of this?!

“Weird that you want Darell to find an off-switch for kindness.”

@Coolhwip You have misunderstood my comment.

If you keep attacking Muslim women as attention seeking, advertising and whatnot, you are likely to keep getting pulled up on it. I'm not pretending to have any genuine curiosity about this bollocks, so there's no reason for me to let it go unchallenged.

@Ifeelsuchafool perhaps didn’t use the best wording but she has clarified what she meant. You have exaggerated and twisted her words to suit your own perceptions and have insulted her. It doesn’t help your cause. The way you and @Coolhwip respond to people is such a contrast to the way @Tooshyshyhushhushidoi kindly responded to me and corrected my misconceptions.

there was a lady at work who was very fair and complaining she burned in the sun. Her and her husband had a home in Spain.

She was admiring my abaya, I have a wardrobe full of abayas, so I gave her an abaya as a gift. There’s a very pale red haired English woman on a beach in Spain somewhere wearing an abaya and a straw hat 😆.

I did tell her she’d get stares she said she’d rather be stared at than sunburnt and was so happy with the abaya.

She hasn't clarified, she has moved the goalposts, denied what she said and used every cliche in the book to justify a complaint that Muslim women don't wear hijabs for legitimate reasons and the hijab somehow isn't an established and normal part of modern Britain.

If your tone policing makes you feel better about that then that's on you, and simply indicates the problem further. You have more of an issue with how this crap is pulled up than the fact that this crap exists.

It’s very strange that you think the whole of Britain is the same and that we all share a common experience of the hijab.

Tone is important. If you can’t stay civil you alienate people. If you actually want to effectively call out the problems you perceive you’re best not to let your points get lost amidst insults. You come across as someone who doesn’t give a shit about the issue. You seem to just want a fight.

And you complain about words being twisted...The hijab is simply not unconventional in Britain. It just isn't. It may not be a common sight in every town but Muslim communities are a key part of Britain and it's offensive to suggest that anyone who wears one is somehow not being fully British and should expect stares.It's very interesting that your wish for civility doesn't extend to someone who has suggested Muslim women don't wear the hijab for sincere reasons, accuses anyone who objects to this of bigotry and projection, and suggested a Muslim poster doesn't speak perfectly fine English when she clearly does.I suppose it comes down to who you mind alienating.

I haven’t seen anyone say that someone wearing a hijab is not fully British. That’s certainly not a view I agree with. I also don’t think anyone has tried to justify staring. There are a lot of comments though - perhaps I’ve missed something.

Muslims make up a very small (1.45 according to Google) percentage of the population where I live. Less than half of that percentage are female. Of those females, not all will choose to cover. That leaves a tiny percentage who wear a hijab. I have no idea how many of those women are white. I’m guessing not many. So a white woman in a hijab would be a very unusual sight. I wouldn’t stare but I would be surprised if I saw her. That surprise may show on my face because humans show emotion. There would be no malice intended. No judgment. No suggestion that she is not British or that her culture and religion are not part of Britain.

”Not based on or conforming to what is generally done or believed.” Definition of unconventional. Where I live, wearing a hijab would fit this. (There is no value judgment in that comment, please don’t try to infer one.) You really can’t speak for the whole of Britain.

"To an extent" was the qualifier. For some religious people they want to be seen as they are eg some Christians might wear a cross to show they are CHristian. Others will wear it because it makes them feel closer to God. As Islam does not require head covering there will be lots of reasons some muslim women choose it - sometimes it is teenager daughters wanting to annoy their non covered mothers; sometimes it is from deep religious conviction and belief the religion does require it; sometimes it is to signal they are muslim. There will be as many reasons as there are 1m female adult muslims in the UK or whatever the number is.

I tend not to start at people as it is rude. I think the bigger problem we have is with some men from abroad in cultures where women do cover up, who are now in the UK, having to stop themselves staring at women who aren't covered. I would rather we concentrated on that male misbehaviour than what women wear.

I think it was the flowery language in @Ifeelsuchafool that made me think she was using office jargon like circle back, etc. My mistake.

What do you mean what am I getting out of this, what are you getting out of it?

I’m here to support OP, who has said she has appreciated me on this thread, so I hope I’ve helped her, even in a very small way. How have you helped OP?

The thread has had people like @Tenacioustattle relentlessly hound OP with questions designed to catch her out, and yet you only have a problem with Darrell and me, even though I have not attacked anyone. Funny that.

Er, claiming that the hijab is unconventional in Britain is pretty much the definition of trying to speak for Britain. It's also demonstrably untrue, ignorant and alienating towards the British Muslim population. But presumably that's civil enough to fly with some people.

Other posters have admitted that they might stare a bit, but have recognised that this is their issue and not tried to blame the hijab wearers for "inviting attention", "advertising their faith" and the rest of it. They also haven't then cried bigotry when told that they're being offensive.

Spot on, DarrellRivers 👏

No, but my best friend is a white Muslim woman and she gets lots of stares and has been asked questions by strangers in the street. People can be awful.

But I didn’t say it was unconventional in Britain as a whole. I said it’s unconventional (i.e. fits the definition I gave) in the small part of Britain that I live in. Any kind of religious clothing or adornment would be. How is saying “not many Muslim people live in my area” alienating? It’s just fact. A fact demonstrated by the figures I gave. You’ve made some pretty impressive leaps there.

I have felt attacked by you @Coolhwip. You made some pretty hurtful comments to me upthread. I doubt you’ll care though. You’ll probably deny it or pretend not to understand.

I think OP dealt with all the questions posed to her very well herself. Not sure how I could have helped her. I don’t have the knowledge as I have freely admitted.

I have got an awful lot out of this thread. OP’s courteous answers to my questions earlier piqued my interest. I have read a couple of AMA threads and some articles online. I’ve appreciated the opportunity to learn. Of course I’m sure you and @DarrellRiversCriminalBehaviourOrder will come up with a way to twist that or infer something I haven’t said like you’ve done with all my other comments.

Can you quote where I have attacked you? Or made a hurtful comment to you?

You are the one who attacked me by saying I have added nothing to the conversation and that I have insulted people. Can you quote one of my insults?

@Coolhwip Well I mentioned when you said it that calling someone oppressive didn’t invite conversation. I found that insulting. You then claimed that you didn’t mean I was oppressive but that I make judgements that are. Or something like that. I’m not scrolling back to find your exact words. You also said I expect Muslim women to bow down to me and that I think I’m superior or have superior knowledge. Insulting and also ridiculous as I have freely admitted where my knowledge is lacking and have accepted the points OP corrected. You said similar things to other posters. You may well stand by what you said. I’m not interested in arguing any further. I defended myself in previous posts. You asked so I’m telling you what I found upsetting.

Apologies if my comments have hurt you in return. When I said you added nothing to the conversation I meant that I haven’t seen you offer any useful information. I’ve only seen you tell people they are wrong or try to tell others what they think. Our previous conversation ended when I asked you only to reply if you had something constructive to say. You didn’t reply which I think says it all.

I’m done with this conversation. I don’t think anything positive will come from it.

I wish you no ill. Take care.

It's so common now to see so many interesting threads go this way with a couple of posters battling it out using the same old tired routine. Cue: tumbleweed.

Well I mentioned when you said it that calling someone oppressive didn’t invite conversation. I found that insulting.

Still so arrogant, @ladymaiasura Why is it ok for you to say Muslim women are oppressed but when I tell you that telling a Muslim woman she is oppressed is oppressive, you get to act all hurt and insulted? It makes no sense.

And I never said you want Muslim women to 'bow down' to you. Just because the thread 600 posts, you can't make stuff up, lady.

I didn't reply to you because the thread is fast moving and I never saw your response. It might surprise you to know what I'm not on tenterhooks waiting for your replies!

Thanks for the apology, I wish no one any ill. Go well.