The problem with Brexit is we didn't Brexit hard enough

[Middlelanehogger]

The EU itself was just the start.

But there are still more institutions which still influence our laws and make it impossible to actually achieve "taking back control".

If anything, we've left the trading bloc (which had economic benefits) but stayed in many of the legal institutions (which retain control over us).

So which body do we leave next - the ECHR? The ECJ? Keenly awaiting responses 😘

Yes but at least it’s OUR shit show and OUR shit that we are pumping into the water in and around OUR country ! Great stuff…. Oh wait

@ilovesooty

Most of the people in the UK didn't vote for Brexit or the Tories.

Even more people didn't vote to stay in the EU.

I've yet to hear of or read about a single logical fact-based reason for leaving the EU from anyone. So yes, my assumption that leave voters are stupid or racist or greedy (or any combination of stupiid/racist/greedy) stands until you, or anyone else, can give me an actual beneficial reason for leaving the EU.

@khw666 What would joining the EU do for normal everyday working class folk?

More, and simpler trade with our neighbours means a stronger economy. That means more money in government coffers, this could be spent on education or the NHS.

More trade means more successful businesses, many of which are owned by pension funds. More successful pension funds mean more money to pensioners.

Simpler access to Horizon Europe means more investment in long term research and development. This would help protect all our futures.

An old argument but the fact remains that just 17.2m voted not to remain in the EU.... out of an electorate of 46m.

Now you can argue the numbers all you like but the cry that the UK voted to leave the EU is frankly bollox.

We didn't, a minority did, a rather small minority of utter idiots but there you go.

But not one single person in the country, not one, voted to leave the Single Market or the Customs Union. Zero, zilch, nada. Anyone who thinks they did is truly ignorant.

Well that is true. If more had voted to remain than leave we’d be in still.

'The problem with Brexit is that it as used as an ideological tool by people who wanted power and played to the right leaning thought processes of the public, and used anything to get there, to further their own needs'.

I've been fortunate enough to visit Barcelona and Venice in the last 5 weeks. Clean cities, polite people, shop shelves and markets rammed with fresh food, excellent and reasonably priced and effective transport services, café culture and not boozing culture.

Those in charge knew exactly what they were doing and how to swing it. It was for 'them' and and not for 'the UK'. Brexit was built on lies and information manipulation that they knew people wouldn't be bothered to investigate. They created a picture of a successful UK that could be more successful if we left.
We weren't particularly successful then, and we won't be for a decade at least, if ever. S

Sadly, it was structured and 'delivered' by people who neither you, nor I, could trust with the weekly big shop.

And the majority public fell for it.

London 2012 will prove to be the high point of recent UK history. Super Saturday the very peak of that.

The only 'benefit' for me, so far, is some cute stamps in my still maroon coloured passport.

@khw666 It will certainly affect salt of the earth people when the car factories relocate or wind down or manufacturing companies like Siemens decide better to have all their operations in Belgium or wherever or (as happened) Tesla give the UK a swerve for a new factory. It will affect them when the UK is short on tax revenue of decent earners and hence our services go to shit . Problem is with some people they don't give a monkeys until/ unless it hits their back packet or interferes with any plans they have. As for the idea it's a load of moaners because they can't get cheap nannies, nannies aren't cheap and were paid the going rate for the job. -

The fact is the status quo wouldn't have changed these peoples lives that much , whereas what has happened has caused economic and business issues galore both on a micro and macro scale. I really don't think a race to the bottom to make everyone's lives as crap as possible is the way to go. You can't blame those of us who are middle income earners with massive fallouts from something we never wanted or voted for and that has few benefits to still be incredibly pissed off about it. I've never owned a second home , I don't even own my first home!! Please don't presume we are all loaded and spitting dummies out because we are a bit less loaded.

@Howpo personally I think all the non voters should be allocated to the status quo as it was- coz they clearly were not that bothered to vote.

Mind you that would bite me on the arse if we did the same in a general election!!!

The leave vote was not a minority in the same way general elections mostly are.

Only just over 16million people voted to remain - an actual minority of those voting, and a smaller proportion of the 46million electorate than the 17 million who voted to leave.

In general elections the majority of people who vote usually vote for parties other than the one that gains power. In the most recent election, only a little over 43% of those voting voted Tory, the remaining 57% voted for other parties.

Yeah that doesn't really work for the reason you have highlighted.

I never said I voted Leave I don't need to spend my time convincing you of reasons other people did. I don't though, brand other people stupid for decisions the made for their reasons.

Brexshit has been an unmitigated disaster.
Family member who imports materials from France now has to pay 20 percent on it as do others.
Brexshit was sold on lies
“Taking back control of “our borders “ and millions to spend on NHS.

Loads of hard working EU workers have gone back to mainland Europe.
People smuggling seems more successful than ever since that slim majority “ Win” that has cost so many of us dear.

@Dreamstate I have friends and family here who voted Leave. All decent, non racist people. They all regret their decision.

It's the ones who still think it was a good idea even now who can reasonably be labelled as not the sharpest tool in the box. Either that or they're some of the people coining it because of Brexit.

I don't though, brand other people stupid for decisions the made for their reasons.

Why on earth not, when the reasons are self-evidently stupid and/or self-serving?

As I said to someone else I know two people who worked 'inside the EU' so I think they have an even better understanding than many of us of what the reality is and if they choose to vote leave than I am not going to call them nasty names of label them as unintelligent people

Because we all have a right to make the decisions that we do as adults, I might not understand their reasoning but that doesn't mean they are stupid.

But nobody is questioning their 'right'. On the other hand, it seems quite strange to be unable to acknowledge that some decisions are stupid, and made for demonstrably stupid reasons.

It's ironic and sad that people going on about EU corruption have landed us with the most corrupt government since probably time immemorial.

The EU acted when they found out about the Qatar bribes. Our government just carries on and does nothing. And yes, I consider people who still support them to be stupid. Because if they aren't, they are immoral.

@CalistoNoSolo I think a fair amount of it was pure political and economic naievity too. A lot of not usually political folk did genuinely believe the crap about more money for the NHS (not thinking 'who staffs it' ) they did believe the 'no one is saying we will leave the customs union /single market ' not thinking but the single market by its nature involves freedom of movement anyway. Look at the fisherman! Thinking only of their territories, not of their markets- and a great deal of their markets involved export apart from very small scale operations. With regard to greedy we also have the tradesmen who were busy thinking 'yippee that gets rid of some of the more sensibly priced competition ' and hence we now have builders and plumbers wanting stratospheric rates for even simple jobs- and no it's not all materials. Those 3 weeks in Barbados in the winter don't come cheap.

My point is on the off trotted out "The UK voted for Brexit" nope, a minority did and an ever smaller one support it too, as older voters die off, younger ones become of age & we see the idiocy of our choice.

Its also a rather undemocratic too, as there is no means to have another vote to change ones mind, as we do with a GE.

We are tied to this vote, regardless of its consequences, probably for the next 15 to 20 years as a minimum.

Stupid to whom? To you - you think tis stupid. To person making it, it isn't.

Name one government that isn't corrupt? Doesn't matter how corrupt they are, they all are. Doesn't matter what party gets voted in the UK, they have all been corrupt.

No, the problem is that some people seem to think that a small Island like the UK doesn't need to have close economic and political ties with its nearest neighbours.
The UK had a very privileged position within the EU with a veto on any regulations. We have lost that forever just because some people wanted to go back to a 1950s paradise that never existed anyway. There was a very good reason that the UK fought so hard to get into the EU in the first place!