The problem with Brexit is we didn't Brexit hard enough

[Middlelanehogger]

The EU itself was just the start.

But there are still more institutions which still influence our laws and make it impossible to actually achieve "taking back control".

If anything, we've left the trading bloc (which had economic benefits) but stayed in many of the legal institutions (which retain control over us).

So which body do we leave next - the ECHR? The ECJ? Keenly awaiting responses 😘

I agree with you OP, and let's face it, so do most of the country - it's just that the other side are louder.

Continual destruction of rights, freedoms, and access in the name of chasing that elusive goal of full successful Brexit when the initial departure didn't work out so well. Keep on going for the Holy Grail. We suffer endlessly.

Well not every destruction of our rights and freedom is related to Brexit, what with WHO who are looking to update their regulations so that member states would need to follow some precise instructions when responding to pandemics such as introducing vaccine passports, border closures and quarantine measures.

impossible to actually achieve "taking back control".

What would 'take back control' mean to you @Middlelanehogger ?

The freedom to send small children up chimneys? Put people in prison for debt? Dump raw sewage in our waterways ?

Oh, wait...

"Well not every destruction of our rights and freedom is related to Brexit, what with WHO who are looking to update their regulations so that member states would need to follow some precise instructions when responding to pandemics such as introducing vaccine passports, border closures and quarantine measures."

"Should the current or a future democratically elected UK Government wish to accept an IHR amendment then amendments to domestic law may be required depending on the content of the IHR amendment. Any changes to domestic law - considered necessary or appropriate to reflect obligations under the IHR amendment - would require domestic legislation, which in turn would be subject to parliamentary scrutiny by democratically-elected parliamentarians (as well as by Members of the Lords). In all circumstances, the UK’s ability to exercise its sovereignty would remain unchanged and the UK would remain in control of any future domestic decisions about national restrictions or other measures.
Department of Health and Social Care"

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/617450

It amazes me how people look at currently UK issues hand think it's just us. German has actually entered recession! Inflation is rocketing across the eu. As ever they Csnt agreed on anything, they can't gey labour for picking etc in Germany which has seen massive immigration.

Ittaly food prices has also gone crazy...

Never forget that 50% of the population is of below-average intelligence!

Nailed it.

If you genuinely believe this, you're economically illiterate.

There's coherent well thought out disagreements and there's a complete inability to define what Brexit people voted for. And there were plenty of racists voted for Brexit for that reason. Some of them spat I'm my DILs face and told her she had to fuck off home now we'd voted leave.

Just over 46 million people were eligible to vote in the referendum. 17.4 million voted 'Leave'. That's about 38% of eligible voters. Which is NOT the majority of people. It isn't even the majority of eligible voters. It IS the majority of those who actually voted. Whichever side of the argument you are on, claiming that the majority wanted to 'Leave' is misleading.

Statistics from the electoral commission. I don't know how to include the link.

This is how international relations work though. If you want to work with other countries (in whatever limited way) you need to agree how those relationships will be managed and governed and negotiated. For some things, that's via the ECHR. For others, the UN, NATO, etc.

We could become entirely isolationist but where would we get our food from? Energy? Workers? What about if we wanted to vist other countries for our holidays? We could transition to that sort of state, but it would be a huge transition and one that the vast majority of people wouldn't want.

I voted for Brexit. Nothing to do with immigration, more that I used to work in the European Parliament and saw the corruption and excess first hand. It was a hard choice, made mostly because the EU refused to negotiate in good faith with Cameron.

Anyway; I was wrong. It's a shit show. Fuck sovereignty when compared with the economy, standards and easy travel.

The UK left the EU over three years ago, and has had since 2016 to plan what a post-brexit UK would be like.

It's well past time to start looking at your politicians for answers for everything that's going wrong and stop letting them point to the EU and tell you that "the bigger boy made me do it"

wouldnt even have progressed if it was a trade union vote to strike.

I agree with you OP, and let's face it, so do most of the country - it's just that the other side are louder

Rubbish. Polling has consistently shown growing regret towards brexit, almost twice as many say it was now a mistake than it being a good decision. Perhaps if all you consume is GB news you might think that, but most people aren’t watching that crap.

Op it’s like you’re arguing, after shooting ourselves in the foot, the next step is to now hack your arms off too.

And besides, actions have consequences. Leaving the ECHR would be catastrophic, in terms of how other countries view us. We are already billy-no-mates because of the Brexit vote, not necessarily the vote itself but way annd manner our government and press then proceeded. Infantile. Ripping up international law will turn us into even more of a pariah, and will have consequences that make Truss’s budget meltdown look like a walk in the park. Be careful what you wish for.

You don't get out much do you, on your brand new blue passport...

Citizens of EU countries can move around within the EU inflation or not. They have that option, we don't anymore. Many EU countries are sunny and warm, and have a low COL. We can't try them out anymore for more than 3 months in 6, unless we apply for and are granted a visa like all other non EU visa applicants.

You personally might not, but plenty of brexiteers on here were very happy to make derogatory comments about remainers during the referendum and negotiation periods.

It's only been relatively recently that they've gone a bit quiet (I suspect because it's now crystal clear brexit has been a disaster and they can't defend it or because they're embarrassed that they fell for the spin and manipulation and want to lay low).

Either way, describing brexiteers as moronic is generally accurate as in most cases as the people who voted for it did so for demonstrably stupid reasons i.e., stopping immigration (could have done that anyway), taking back control (never lost it), economic opportunities (for the rich maybe, not for Joe/Jane Blogs).

They made their decisions based on sound bites, catchphrases, and feelings instead of research and clear understanding of how the EU works.

That's moronic whichever way you look at it and really serves as an illustration as to why you don't ask the public to make those sort of decisions regularly, especially without some form of qualifier attached0 e.g., brexit could only have won if there was. 66%+ majority in favour and a 75%+ turnout.

We also should leave NATO, the UN, WHO, UNESCO, the WTO, the IMF, Interpol, the IOC, definitely the European Space Agency, the International Civil Aviation Authority.

In fact we should just declare ourselves independent and launch our island into space to assert our independence fully.

The Ops argument is that we did something very badly and to correct that we should do more of the same.

It's very W1A for which I applaud her.

Which would explain the 'Leave' vote in the first place, also.

Pretty much

Add to that as a parent of teens, our university fees here are an utter disgrace. Second highest in the developed world according to a recent article and going up. With EU citizenship theyre free or significantly cheaper in any eu country. And scotland, but not for the english, welsh or northern irish.

I know of only 4 people who voted leave in my circle- all have said it's a shower of shit. 2 of them thought we would have a Norway type arrangement to which they saw advantages- 1 saw it asa protest vote against the gvt ???? The other one believed we would still have single market and customs union as the gvt wouldn't be so stupid as to abandon that. What none had factored in was the Tory's not giving a shit about the economy in their desperation to hang onto those ukip votes.

As for Germany being in recession- it sure doesn't feel like it and I've been several times recently. Maybe they are just more honest and factual- whereas here in corrupt Uk we just remove things off the inflation list if it's not giving us the data we want.

We have a situation where the rich can still buy themselves out of a situation and keep multiple homes- just keeping an eye on their days out the UK and now able to hide their offshore cash too and those at the opposite end of the spectrum who in all fairness probably don't see the big issue as much and think it's all down to covid or Ukraine - because that's what the right wing media is feeding them

In the middle we have a shitload of failed or failing businesses, especially ones who export, increased costs, increased red tape, higher import costs, less interest in high level investment (unless it's stuff to skirt round EU rules/standards) lost opportunities for young people and contractors - a great many high level jobs moving to the EU etc and soaraway immigration to try and fill the gaps-- the list is endless and was always utterly predictable

All the comments about 'did their research' - they were only listening to research 'one way' and many got it from the Mail and the Sun etc- that is hardly quality research.