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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be utterly sick of casual sexism.

83 replies

PurposefulBear · 31/05/2023 10:02

Honestly, I’m just sick of it. I feel like I have to spend my life proving to people that…

a) I have a serious job (that just happens to be in a male dominated world… in which the men I work with NEVER make me feel second best, it’s people outside it who seem to think it’s impossible for a women to really be achieving something aspirational or impactful)

b) I have a valid opinion on things and my decisions are just as valid as a man’s decisions. I find that the whole latent sexism spills over into so many different areas.

tbf… a lot of this comes from my in laws, especially FIL and BIL. My DH is lovely, but he’s in a job that’s seen as highly successful and he gets paid accordingly. When it comes to our lives though, I run and do everything because that’s the dynamic that ends up working best for us, I don’t mind it too much, he helps as much as he can and is a great DH/DF.

But even yesterday, talking to a complete stranger when in mum mode (ie with the kids)… the conversation turns to “so what does your husband do”… not a single question about what I do, as if it doesn’t matter, it’s just pocket money. whenever I talk to people it’s so often “oh so how is DH’s job going”, excuses for me having to manage the mental load being “oh he must be so stressed and tired”.

I don’t blame DH for this at all, it’s just seems to be that latent sexism is still everywhere. That somehow it’s ok for mums to be worked to the bone, but for their jobs still to be seen as second best to the wider world, as long as men get the recognition they deserve for all the effort they put in and the difference or reward they take out.

Rant over, is it just me??

OP posts:
GiveupHQ · 31/05/2023 10:04

Honestly? I don’t recognise anything in your OP

i feel respected at work, very much so.
I feel respected in my relationships
and I don’t come across sexism from strangers

Original poster
PurposefulBear · 31/05/2023 10:05

Maybe it’s me. If it is then it will help me to understand why I feel this way at least?

OP posts:
GiveupHQ · 31/05/2023 10:08

I can’t say it’s just you as I am aware of other mumsnet posters complaining about it

but certainly in RL, amongst friends, family and female colleagues - it’s not something I am aware of or that we talk about.

at work, I have more men junior to me than senior. I have more females senior to me than junior. I feel well respected and listened to by both sexes equally

sweatynoob · 31/05/2023 10:08

Never felt the same. Wonder if it is one of those things that if you ‘look for’ you will find

newbie202020 · 31/05/2023 10:11

I hear you OP!

My family relocated abroad due to my job. My husband was a trailing spouse and did not work as he was unwell and then defaulted to be a stay at home dad. On not one occasion in 3 years abroad was I ever asked about my role and the assumption (every single time we met anyone new) was that we had relocated abroad due to my husband's job.

SweetPetrichor · 31/05/2023 10:12

I work in a male dominated industry, very male dominated sector within that and I've never felt like I've been treated any differently in my career. My male colleagues don't treat me any differently to anyone else.

But I have noticed that the worst casual sexism actually comes from fellow females!

Cherryblossoms85 · 31/05/2023 10:14

I don't feel that very often now that I'm the only breadwinner. It did annoy me when I went on a long business trip though, and my boss said "aren't you going to miss your kids?". Yes, I am, but you're not having that conversation with the other 10 men on the same trip who also report to you, and whose kids are also still in primary school, are you!

Ilkleymoor · 31/05/2023 10:16

I have a gay male friend who had this happen to him - his was the little job as his husband was the high earner. They moved 3 times long distances in the UK to accommodate his husband's ambitions and promotions, which his in laws applauded. When he then took up the opportunity to work abroad for 3 months in his field, there was lots of hand wringing about how this wasn't fair for his husband. There are no children, my friend and husband have a great give and take relationship, it seemed to me that he was being viewed as the 'woman' in the relationship and his role was to support. So when he broke that, they were judgemental.

DollyTrolly · 31/05/2023 10:20

Oh yes OP ..... unfortunately it's everywhere.

My biggest bugbear at the moment is how differently me and DH are treated when we work away.
When DH is away nobody gets in touch with me, when I'm away DH is inundated with offers of help and childcare options!!

DollyTrolly · 31/05/2023 10:21

Oh and I constantly get asked who is looking after my child when I'm away. Nobody has ever asked DH than when he's away!

Original poster
PurposefulBear · 31/05/2023 10:24

sweatynoob · 31/05/2023 10:08

Never felt the same. Wonder if it is one of those things that if you ‘look for’ you will find

Fair point. I think I feel a bit insecure around my ILs tbh, they never ever ask about work and when I talk about it they always make me feel like they’re challenging what I say, or that somehow they’re experts in it themselves (they’re not). With DH he could say absolutely anything and they’d say “oh wow that’s just amazing”!

OP posts:
Original poster
PurposefulBear · 31/05/2023 10:25

DollyTrolly · 31/05/2023 10:20

Oh yes OP ..... unfortunately it's everywhere.

My biggest bugbear at the moment is how differently me and DH are treated when we work away.
When DH is away nobody gets in touch with me, when I'm away DH is inundated with offers of help and childcare options!!

Omg yes.

OP posts:
Original poster
PurposefulBear · 31/05/2023 10:27

Ilkleymoor · 31/05/2023 10:16

I have a gay male friend who had this happen to him - his was the little job as his husband was the high earner. They moved 3 times long distances in the UK to accommodate his husband's ambitions and promotions, which his in laws applauded. When he then took up the opportunity to work abroad for 3 months in his field, there was lots of hand wringing about how this wasn't fair for his husband. There are no children, my friend and husband have a great give and take relationship, it seemed to me that he was being viewed as the 'woman' in the relationship and his role was to support. So when he broke that, they were judgemental.

This resonates, I feel for him.

When I decided to go back to work after having DC, everyone said “but how will you manage everything?” I told them DH would be stepping up to do more and there was much hand wringing too about how I mustn’t put too much pressure on him.

OP posts:
Original poster
PurposefulBear · 31/05/2023 10:29

SweetPetrichor · 31/05/2023 10:12

I work in a male dominated industry, very male dominated sector within that and I've never felt like I've been treated any differently in my career. My male colleagues don't treat me any differently to anyone else.

But I have noticed that the worst casual sexism actually comes from fellow females!

Within my industry I definitely don’t feel it, but agree… if there is ever a “oh she’s a working mum” comment (in the context of “leaving early” or not going out in the evening etc) it’s from women! Men never question anything… tbf I think they’re probably too scared to now??

OP posts:
onefinemess · 31/05/2023 10:30

Oh do calm down OP!

Now, I'm sure it's difficult trying to manage your little job whilst also looking after your Husband and the house, but if you weren't so emotional things would be so much easier for you.

Why don't you have a nice cup of tea and a sit down, if you keep thinking about what the men are doing you'll give yourself a panic attack.

Original poster
PurposefulBear · 31/05/2023 10:33

onefinemess · 31/05/2023 10:30

Oh do calm down OP!

Now, I'm sure it's difficult trying to manage your little job whilst also looking after your Husband and the house, but if you weren't so emotional things would be so much easier for you.

Why don't you have a nice cup of tea and a sit down, if you keep thinking about what the men are doing you'll give yourself a panic attack.

Haha - so true!!

OP posts:
CuriouslyDifferent · 31/05/2023 10:36

I work in the tech sector.

the people that can do their job, go the extra mile, never let you down, get the respect.

the people that turn up - do their hours - and leave. The people that talk and complain a lot. Don’t.

Original poster
PurposefulBear · 31/05/2023 10:39

I’m talking about outside work @CuriouslyDifferent not inside. I’ve been on a PT contract for the past two years which has unquestionably resulted in my being paid 3.5 days for 5+days worth of work. So this isn’t the issue.

OP posts:
unlikelychump · 31/05/2023 10:43

PurposefulBear · 31/05/2023 10:39

I’m talking about outside work @CuriouslyDifferent not inside. I’ve been on a PT contract for the past two years which has unquestionably resulted in my being paid 3.5 days for 5+days worth of work. So this isn’t the issue.

Should this not be the issue?

BitOutOfPractice · 31/05/2023 10:47

Oh how I laughed at the very first response to the OP's thread being to dismiss her own experience as irrational!

OP I totally hear you about careers, home management, child care etc.

I'll give another example, in a pub chatting about football with a bloke last week. He keeps addressing comments / questions to DP. DP isn't a big football fan so he kept saying "I have no idea, she's the expert!" And still the bloke just ignored me, kept talking to DP, even though I had struck up the conversation. I gave up in the end.

Original poster
PurposefulBear · 31/05/2023 10:50

unlikelychump · 31/05/2023 10:43

Should this not be the issue?

Show quote history

Yes it has been an issue, but it’s separate from the wider situation and things are better now. Tbh as a PT worker in a similar situation to that which @CuriouslyDifferent describes, I ended up doing the work because I felt it was what I had to do to “go the extra mile and …get the respect” she talks about… , not to be the one who “turns up and does their hours then leaves”… which inherently yes, probably is more of an issue than I had realised.

It’s a fair question, why shouldn’t people get respect for getting their work done within their hours?

OP posts:
Original poster
PurposefulBear · 31/05/2023 10:51

BitOutOfPractice · 31/05/2023 10:47

Oh how I laughed at the very first response to the OP's thread being to dismiss her own experience as irrational!

OP I totally hear you about careers, home management, child care etc.

I'll give another example, in a pub chatting about football with a bloke last week. He keeps addressing comments / questions to DP. DP isn't a big football fan so he kept saying "I have no idea, she's the expert!" And still the bloke just ignored me, kept talking to DP, even though I had struck up the conversation. I gave up in the end.

Yes this too! A friend of mine did FPL and won every single mini league she was in. Not one person has been in touch to say well done.

OP posts:
Maddy70 · 31/05/2023 10:53

I have risen through the ranks in my profession. I can honestly say I don't recognise anything in the OP.

Shinyandnew1 · 31/05/2023 10:56

I don’t recognise much of this. Not sure what your ‘serious’ job is (as opposed to a silly one?!) but I have a professional job, as does DH, and I haven’t noticed comments like this. People ask me how DH is, how work is going, if he’s not there, but that’s just making conversation and we talk about our work as well. I think my in laws think I should work more hours though…!

Izzabird · 31/05/2023 10:59

Of course casual sexism remains -- I don't come across it in my workplace in terms of daily attitudes, but as a very non-mobile, hierarchical career structure, women are still under-represented at the most senior levels, though it's changing, gradually.

I do see it with my ILs (and my parents, actually) so there's an extent to which the attitudes are generational and social-class-related in terms of who is spouting them in my own life -- I married into a WC family of early school leavers in which women always stay at home, and working mothers are a sign a of financial stress and a 'man not being able to keep you', and even then it's a matter of a 'little night time job'.

My demanding, professional, not-especially well-remunerated career puzzles everyone, bar DH, who took the same career pathway (how we met) until he decided to change fields to something entirely different (and very high-profile), and who, despite his 'big job' in a deeply macho, male-dominated industry, is fully on board in terms of daily parenting, cooking and running the house. He doesn't get a free pass because of his important, well-paid job.

What I find notable about your post, OP, is that you decry casual sexism and then in the same breath say that you do everything in the house. Why? Is this contributing to your annoyance about your IL's sexism?