To be utterly sick of casual sexism.

[PurposefulBear]

Honestly, I’m just sick of it. I feel like I have to spend my life proving to people that…

a) I have a serious job (that just happens to be in a male dominated world… in which the men I work with NEVER make me feel second best, it’s people outside it who seem to think it’s impossible for a women to really be achieving something aspirational or impactful)

b) I have a valid opinion on things and my decisions are just as valid as a man’s decisions. I find that the whole latent sexism spills over into so many different areas.

tbf… a lot of this comes from my in laws, especially FIL and BIL. My DH is lovely, but he’s in a job that’s seen as highly successful and he gets paid accordingly. When it comes to our lives though, I run and do everything because that’s the dynamic that ends up working best for us, I don’t mind it too much, he helps as much as he can and is a great DH/DF.

But even yesterday, talking to a complete stranger when in mum mode (ie with the kids)… the conversation turns to “so what does your husband do”… not a single question about what I do, as if it doesn’t matter, it’s just pocket money. whenever I talk to people it’s so often “oh so how is DH’s job going”, excuses for me having to manage the mental load being “oh he must be so stressed and tired”.

I don’t blame DH for this at all, it’s just seems to be that latent sexism is still everywhere. That somehow it’s ok for mums to be worked to the bone, but for their jobs still to be seen as second best to the wider world, as long as men get the recognition they deserve for all the effort they put in and the difference or reward they take out.

Rant over, is it just me??

Yup. Me and DH went to same uni (6 years each), same age. I earn slightly more and do slightly longer hours in very comparable jobs and still I get asked how his big important job is going at least 3 times as much as I get asked about mine

I’m really surprised any time a woman says they’ve not experienced it, especially by strangers.

Window seller directed every question to DP. I invited him; I told him I’d be paying. Handed the quotes to DP. Answered my questions back to DP.

Got told to smile by two fishermen on a walk 2 weeks ago. DP, straggling behind looking grumpy on his phone got a nod as he walked past.

Plasterer last month said it would be easier to explain what needs doing to my husband. I don’t have a husband and I’d never mentioned my relationship status.

These aren’t unusual things that happen.

I also meant to say I catch myself "being sexist " occasionally. We saw a dad out for lunch in a cafe with one year old twins in high chairs. I said "gosh he's brave coming out with them on his own". My husband retorted "you'd never have said that if they were with their mother". Also had a few chats with a lovely school mum I bumped into a few times. I'd assumed she was a SAHM and found out some time later that she's a consultant oncologist. Have to also chastise myself!

I'll join @BitOutOfPractice

@honeylulu I am so glad I'm not there only one , 🤣 I'm a huge feminist bringing up children who will give you a super scathing stare if you say anything stereotypical and then I catch myself doing it!! Shows how ingrained it is.

And to those who've "never experienced it", bollocks.

I'm not sure you can complain when you buy into it yourself really

How do you know?

Perhaps I was the only one who could be arsed @GiveupHQ ? But you saying you don’t recognise any of that, is certainly very dismissive of the OP’s (and many others’) experience! Do you believe that it doesn’t happen because it doesn’t happen to you? Do you think the OP is imagining it?

as for hyperbole “soil”ing the thread. That’s the most hyperbolic thing on the whole thread fgs! 😂

@Cosyblankets erm because they were all there?

I work in a very male dominated industry. So much so that when we had our uniform updated last month, no one bothered to order women’s stuff.. We have to pick from the blokes fit. We just get forgotten.

So did you say that to him? Did you ask the others?
The only way this is going to go away is if it is addressed

I used to work as a mechanical engineer.

I travelled to a location with my boss and they'd assumed that as I was working for an engineering company and my name was abbreviated to the version that could be either male or female, that I was male, so they'd given me a room on the ground floor.

Turns out they have a policy that females staying on their own are not to be given ground floor rooms, so I got moved to a top floor suite! I really wasn't bothered in a ground floor room, but they wouldn't have it!

I've since changed career and it makes me sad to see how few girls still shy away form "boy" subjects as the career paths are seen as male dominated. I'm doing my best to change this!

I hear you. In fact recently the realisation dawned on me that since being with DP none of his family or friends have actually asked what I do. If any of them know its because myself or DP have mentioned it in conversation somewhere.

We go out fairly frequently for DPs work. Dinners or things with clients, aswell as he has a fair few company 'events' where I've met most of his work collegues and their families. Not one of the men has actually asked me what I do. The only people that have asked have been women. Same with acquantances of his we've bumped into he hasn't seen for ages (we live now where he used to live years ago so have often bump into people he knew from way back). Again they ask what he is doing now. Its probably only 1 in 10 who then ask what I do. and my job is waaaaay more interesting then dps!

It really does seem like they think its unimportant what I do, so no point even asking. Its really weird. Most of my female friends, if not all, have asked what DP does, but also ask about my work.

DPs family are the worst though. Very much a womans work and mans work attitude to the house. I stupidly mentioned I didn't iron dp's shirts recently and his mother was shocked why I "wouldn't look after that for him". I don't know, because I'm not his bloody mother and if he can't use an iron at the age he is at it isn't because he isn't a woman, its because hes goddamn lazy perhaps? We both work full time, in fact I actually work slightly more hours. But apparently its my job because I don't have a penis which I can guess must get in the way, preventing him being able to do these things for himself. Hell, its not that bloody big!

DP used to be very similar when we first met, that soon got straightened out and he absolutely gets it now. If he hadn't I'd of been out of there.

About a year ago, DP and I went to a restaurant, which happened to be run by an old collegue of his. So we were chatting. 3 of us there. I joined in the conversation which was about food and his old collegue effectively blanked everything I said and even spoke over me a few times. Literally like I wasn't there. I have refused to go back ever since. He clearly thought my input wasn't worth being included in a 3 person conversation.

The list can go on, really pisses me off all the time sometimes.

I'm the main breadwinner. DH works part time, around the DC. He finds it very frustrating when we are together and he gets asked "what do you do" but no one asks me. I just roll my eyes because yes, OP, you're right - it does happen a lot and I have to let it go a lot of the time otherwise I'd be furious.

I think if its the in laws it would infuriate me. But then, it would never happen with my in laws because DH would step in and put them right every single time.

I live in an area where mum don’t work or do little work and dads are high earners and often nit around much . In contrast I earn 3x what Hubby earns . It’s very annoying and hoje asked that question but in my case it’s even worse as it assumes I do not work and I’m very proud of working and my job .

Oh, but we could all just smile and get on with it though....... darling.

Maybe pop out and buy ourselves something pretty. Whilst smiling of course.

I have a similar experience.
I work in a completely male dominated industry, my colleagues are male but treat me as an absolute equal, but when people call, they always ask to be put through to someone who can talk to them about XYZ as they assume I'm reception.

The worst sexism incident at work was when a guy came in and I went to deal with him and he said he wanted to speak to someone who knew what they were talking about. I said I did, but he again refused to speak to me and said he wanted to speak to a man as required an expert opinion. The only man available at the time was our accountant who stomped over quite brusquely and said "you can speak to me and have a mans opinion or you can speak to her and have an expert opinion, which one do you want?"
I bought him a twix and a Fanta after that :D

That’s brilliant! I’d be very happy if my DS grew up to be that person

I hear you all.
I have had a really eclectic career in engineering - civils and mechanical and been on TV for the whole family to witness.
In the last 25 years, fil & bil have stuck to requesting all technical questions/assistance to DH. I never get asked what I'm working on (even though it's generally really fun and has a quick behind the scenes video to go with it) and if I volunteer the information in a 'you'll like this' they just look embarrassed and then later I'll find them asking DH, 20 questions about how he manages his important (but fairly predictable) job.

Professionally my boss is shocking about some stuff but always got my back, but we do a good unsettling double act. I still have crazy imposter syndrome that I have to fight and the lack of acknowledgement is a big part of that.
But there is hope, over the last few years, when our kids describe our jobs to their peers, it's mine that stirs everyone up.
Today I'm feeling pissed off about it - I cycle through other emotions - resigned, determined, exasperated, about to surrender, etc

I think asking someone in mom mode what they do for a living can be a loaded question. Unless they've specified they work or don't I don't discuss it. So oftentimes I find someone will mention their partner is in work and I'll ask but I don't ask about themselves unless they've indicated they do work. I am sahp and I hate hate hate when people ask because there's then an awkward conversation around that choice which always makes me feel like I'm justifying myself or they're trying to validate my choice.

@Verv luckily the male colleagues are very good and will be "I'll just put you back to our technical advisor, I don't have a clue so it's her you need to speak to"

I didn't find the conversation about why awkward. It was a simple "I waited a long time for the children and wanted to be with them until they started school". They often followed with a "you're so lucky" to which I smiled whilst thinking "no, not really, I worked 12 hour days from 20 to 35 when contemporaries like you were telling me I was stupid and should be back packing in Bali".

I agree to an extent (though I think it’s slowly getting better).

But I do think that by doing the majority of jobs at home, you’re kind of perpetuating the idea that a man’s time and career is more important than a woman’s… unless he works long hours, seven days a week, he does have time to do his fair share. Women rarely get to opt out of housework because they are busy with work.

@Lovingitallnow

Do you presume men don't work to if they're in 'dad mode'

Assuming it's just conversation, annoying as it is, I'd follow the example of politicians being interviewed who answer the question they want to answer rather than the question they were asked.

If anyone ever asked me what my DH does, I'd laugh and say something flippant about who knows, tell them a bit about my job and ask them something about themselves.

I left school in the end '70's and genuinely thought that all this sexism stuff that my parent's generation had to put up with had all been sorted out.

Genuinely despair that it is still so much in evidence decades later.