To think young women just don’t realise... (TW: fertility/ TTC)

[DespairingALittle]

Nc as this combined with various other posts would be outing, this is a bugbear I’ve thought about a lot when ttc myself and something today brought it up again...

Anyhow, AIBU to think ladies In their late twenties who freeze their eggs (or plan to as a ‘failsafe’) don’t realise it’s not a guarantee or the same as ‘pressing pause’ on biology?

This comes about as i was chatting to childhood friend (29, same as me) about kids (I have recently had DS so this is why we were chatting about kids) and she said ‘oh x (school pal) froze her eggs recently, if I haven’t had kids by 33 I’ll do the same, x is so relieved to press pause and take the pressure off’ another friend has also mentioned egg freezing recently for the same reason, both have just said they don’t want the responsibility of kids yet but are in a ‘good’ position to do so ... each to their own but all I could think was that it’s all well and good but it doesn’t guarantee anything! Sadly the demon biology also makes it harder to carry as you age too, it’s not all about eggs!

I just think so many in my generation have the attitude that it will just happen later regardless thanks to science but everyone I know who has had kids or tried to have kids later has struggled (not a guarantee ofc but a statistical probability nonetheless)... interested to hear other people’s thoughts on this. Perhaps this is more of a ‘my circle of friends’ issue than a wider one.

YANBU - it’s a concern, many may end up disappointed in the future, not to mention already falling birth rates etc
YABU - mind your own!

So why use outdated terminology of "SHOs" and "SpRs" then ?

Just don't overemphasis fertility declines.

I think we over emphasise it for women - 35 year fertility falling of a cliff is bull due to bad data - though 45 ONS consider women at population level to be past fertility.

I think we tend to underemphasise decline in male fertility.

There was quite a bit in media while back that was saying when couple are infertile they rush to investigate the women despite it being often simpler to check men first.

@user1477391263 - very interesting not least because with the depopulation coverage they keep saying no government has ever turned it round.

I think there will always be some who want children what ever the situation so we'll hit some stable number at some point what every governments end up doing.

This thread has got me thinking. Is there a clear defined age where male fertility declines?

I didn’t. I don’t use those terms now. Show me where I did please.

Apologies another medic on the thread. A TPD no less.

Men's age and fertility

While the effects of female age on fertility have been known for a long time, more recent studies have found that the age of the male partner also affects the chance of pregnancy and pregnancy health.
Male fertility generally starts to reduce around age 40 to 45 years when sperm quality decreases. Increasing male age reduces the overall chances of pregnancy and increases time to pregnancy (the number of menstrual cycles it takes to become pregnant) and the risk of miscarriage and fetal death.
Children of older fathers also have an increased risk of mental health problems (although this is still rare). Children of fathers aged 40 or over are 5 times more likely to develop an autism spectrum disorder than children of fathers aged 30 or less. They also have a slightly increased risk of developing schizophrenia and other mental health disorders later in life.

https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/conditionsandtreatments/age-and-fertility

I suspect it's probably similar with as with women - in RL huge range due to genetics and lifestyle with some extreme outliers to rest of population.

I think it’s better to freeze eggs/embryos and be left disappointed if it doesn’t work than have a baby you’re ill equipped to raise because the time isn’t right.

Congratulations OP for your immaculate it seems conception. Not everyone is as fortunate to be able to have DC in their 20’s doesn’t make them any less.

I’ve only read the first half of the thread so ignore if this has been addressed, but at what age do your friends plan to have kids? If they’re 29 and in committed relationships, they probably don’t mean “pressing pause” til they’re 45, they probably just want to have a few more years (and it’s perfectly normal to not feel mentally ready for kids at 29 and maybe wait til 32 or so after your career is more established and you perhaps buy a home etc). I also doubt they believe that freezing eggs is a 100% guarantee, just an extra route in case they might need it.

Fwiw I did look into freezing eggs in my late 20’s as I didn’t have a partner then, but decided against it and then met my DH and we went on to have 2 kids (one at 32 and one about to be born this year, at 36), both conceived naturally and at first attempt (which I understand is also very lucky generally). My friend looked into freezing eggs at the same time, ended up having to go through extensive IVF but nothing to do with her age, rather some issues with her immune system that she would still have if she was 5 years younger. (she’s also 36 now)

Fertility is a complex issue, the prime age is supposed to be around 25 but I don’t know anyone nowadays who had kids that young. Early to mid 30’s is the most common in my circles and most people had no issues, those that are doing IVF would most likely still have issues in their late 20’s. Obviously after 40 is another extreme and most (but not all) people in that age bracket I know have dealt with miscarriages and many rounds of IVF. (and yes I agree for those older celebrities it’s probably donor eggs and surrogates) But if your friends are mostly settled now I don’t imagine they are planning to wait another 15 years.

I think there’s very good reason why it gets harder to conceive in late 30s. Because you are just knackered! I’m saying this as a 37yo mum of 10 month old twins. I just don’t have the same energy I did with my 18 and 16 year olds.

I did ivf in my my VERY early 20’s, very healthy, produced LOTS of grade A eggs,
We were told eggs alone don’t freeze very well - or rather they don’t defrost too well…. Maybe this has changed but we were told they freeze better if fertilised first….
Anyway you’re right… even in my 20’s NINE embryos of highest standard didn’t take…
However I also think people shouldn’t have children before they’re ready.. but women are increasingly risking their fertile youthful years … but it’s also harder now, women still struggling to get equal rights, having to put careers on hold/pensions/ if they do choose motherhood it’s a financial struggle with the cost of childcare.

Having children young vs gambling declining fertility for a career… both carry risks these days

To be fair, you'd be a lot less knackered if you were a 37 year old without 10 month old twins!

Personally I’d rather a baby at the wrong time than no baby at all, but that’s just me.

I do agree

I don't really know, and I don't know anyone who did or is doing this. Most of my friends started their families when they were in their early to mid 30s like I did, with a few waiting longer and having their families in their late 30s / early 40s. I thought that was the norm these days. I have lost my fertility due to cancer treatment (at a relatively young age, and before we had completed our family) and I grieve the loss of future unborn children that I will now never have, but egg freezing wouldn't have helped as my treatment makes me not only unable to conceive but also to carry a baby. Sorry that doesn't really answer your question.

I'm an IVF veteran of a decade.
Sadly egg freezing yields very low sucees rates. This is because unfertilised eggs don't thaw well due to their jelly like compound.

So yes unfortunately young women are being sold a bit of a con here.

Far better to fertilise 1st and freeze as embryos either with partners sperm of if single donor sperm

I used to think something similar but now I believe that my future child deserves more than I can currently give it. I don’t think it’s fair to bring a child into the world if I don’t have the resources to adequately care for it.

It depends what's meant by adequately care for.

There's a vast difference between no holidays abroad or not having bought a home, versus sending your child to bed hungry because you can't afford food.

For me, I'd be happy to forgo some of the luxuries and have a child than none at all, too.

Agree re more education but wondering where you got got your 1 in 2 stats from?
https://www.webmd.com/baby/pregnant-at-40

I also think it depends on how much you want a baby.

I'm glad I had my baby, of course I am but having a baby wasn't an absolute must for me. Having a career was a must, financial independence was a must but a baby was 'lets give it a try, it would be nice if it happened'.

To be fair, that was after spending most of my 20's not wanting children at all.

Oh, I’m not a fertility expert or anything, but I had this study in mind:

Total derail but the language in the WebMD article linked above really got on my tits. 😂

”the sperm-producing parent” - what, the FATHER?

For me personally I’d want to give my child what I’d consider a decent standard of living, and whilst as far as basic living and material needs being met I know I can provide. They’d never be hungry and would always have clothes and a roof over their head. We could also manage some holidays and treats.

In terms of the way I am as a person right now, I don’t think I could be there for them in the way that they need. It wouldn’t be fair to inflict that on a child. This might be the case forever, therefore meaning I’ll never be able to have a child.

I do not think people understand the stress and high failure rate of ivf and eggs from a 30 year old ?

I would think most women are aware that fertility rates drop as you get older. If your going to the lengths of having your eggs frozen you most likely would look into it.
I had my babies at 36,37 and 38 and was literally pregnant with a month or 2 of trying. I do realise it isn’t that easy for all. However, I do know lots of other women in their late 30’s and early 40’s who have conceived easily. I guess it’s a lottery, and not all women can conceive easily when they are young either. Freezing eggs seems sensible to me if you aren’t ready, but then I don’t know much about the success rate etc.
Each to their own as far as I’m concerned.