To think young women just don’t realise... (TW: fertility/ TTC)

[DespairingALittle]

Nc as this combined with various other posts would be outing, this is a bugbear I’ve thought about a lot when ttc myself and something today brought it up again...

Anyhow, AIBU to think ladies In their late twenties who freeze their eggs (or plan to as a ‘failsafe’) don’t realise it’s not a guarantee or the same as ‘pressing pause’ on biology?

This comes about as i was chatting to childhood friend (29, same as me) about kids (I have recently had DS so this is why we were chatting about kids) and she said ‘oh x (school pal) froze her eggs recently, if I haven’t had kids by 33 I’ll do the same, x is so relieved to press pause and take the pressure off’ another friend has also mentioned egg freezing recently for the same reason, both have just said they don’t want the responsibility of kids yet but are in a ‘good’ position to do so ... each to their own but all I could think was that it’s all well and good but it doesn’t guarantee anything! Sadly the demon biology also makes it harder to carry as you age too, it’s not all about eggs!

I just think so many in my generation have the attitude that it will just happen later regardless thanks to science but everyone I know who has had kids or tried to have kids later has struggled (not a guarantee ofc but a statistical probability nonetheless)... interested to hear other people’s thoughts on this. Perhaps this is more of a ‘my circle of friends’ issue than a wider one.

YANBU - it’s a concern, many may end up disappointed in the future, not to mention already falling birth rates etc
YABU - mind your own!

Another one
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/miscarriage/4813034-scared-this-was-my-last-chance

Reasons why waiting till 34/35 isn't a great plan.

Share my opinions = judgement, telling them what to do, bad friend.

Don’t share my opinions = letting them go blindly, not a good enough friend

Basically you can’t win with such a sensitive topic so I try to be neutral. But someone I thread suggested asking them more questions which is good advice I intend to use in the future if it comes up again.

I personally have been/am interested in having a more general discussion on the topic but a lot of people have been keen to probe me about the friends and their situation. My circle of friends and nct cohort are also my main frame of reference on this topic.

@DespairingALittle

The conversation is quite simple if you are concerned as a friend.

”I was reading up about egg freezing and the statistics re. success are XX, it made me feel worried for you…. What sort of information has the clinic given you” etc etc

That way you raise your concern and ascertain if they’ve been naive, they get to tell you how they’ve thought their decision through.

Though they really shouldn’t have to justify their choice to you.

Exactly they shouldn't have to justify their choice to OP. I can't help but feel the OP wants to be "right" rather than has genuine concern for her friends.

How can you ever know though if that woman would have conceived easily and carried to term in her 20s? There's no way to know. She could have had the same issues younger as she does now. It COULD be an egg quality issue. But it equally might not be. There are plenty of people in the world who have never been able to have children despite starting young. It's not a case of start early and you're guaranteed a child. I got pregnant (accidently) at 28. Had a miscarriage. It can still happen when young.

There are many here that would suggest that that kind of reply IS being exactly the kind of judgemental etc that you all think I’m being. I don’t want them to feel shamed for their choices - it’s absolutely up to them. It’s a lose lose situation for me to say something or not say something. Whatever I do/say either way could be construed as me being a bad friend somehow as explained in my other reply! I hope for my friends I am wrong, I hope they are in the minority that postpone kids until late 30s/early 40s (if that stays their choice), get pregnant without issue or needing fertility treatment and live happily ever after BUT sadly statistics suggest that is the less likely option.

But in your 20's you have more time to find out what the problem is and hopefully get treatment. I have said this at least twice already on this thread, yes she would be where she is now but at 32/33 not at 39. That is assuming the recurrent miscarriages aren't age related.

This. I started ttc at 29 and never did get pregnant. It really annoys me the way most women struggling to conceive are deemed to have left it too late to start.

That is the risk you take by delaying until 34/35 not that it won't happen immediately- that can be the case at any age, but that you don't have that long to seek effective fertility treatment. I think that is what needs to be clearly communicated to men and women.

I'm sorry to hear that. Unfortunately it just will never happen for some people.

Do you work full time as a doctor? What age will you make consultant?

I think it's really out of order to link to posts by women seeking advice as some sort of cautionary tale. I had recurrent miscarriages TTC my first (at age 33/34) and if I'd seen someone posting a link to my thread as evidence of the folly of leaving it too late I'd have felt even worse than I already did.

Mine weren't even age related, as it turned out. I repeated the same treatment that eventually worked to have my son when I wanted to try for a second baby and conceived my daughter on the first cycle, at 36.

It’s disingenuous to claim you can just as easily drive your career forward in your late 20s/early 30s after you’ve had babies as you can at 22 fresh out of university.

I was working 70+ hour weeks and studying for professional exams for the first 5 years of my career, with regular travel overseas for work.

Like many careers, mine required a lot of time and effort in the early years to get qualified/established. Unsurprisingly, not one person in my graduate intake had children. It would have been a nightmare.

I also agree that the faux concern and “my poor friends” “that poor hospital consultant who got promoted years before me but later struggled with fertility” twaddle can get in the bin.

I became a consultant at 39. I work ft now my DCs are 19 &17. I was pt until Dd (DC2) was yr 4 (nearly 9 as October Birthday). Mostly 0.7 (28 hours a week) over 3 days- some of those weekends.

Agreed. Some disgraceful behaviour on this thread. By mature doctors no less.

Yes. And also a doctor should be trained in critical thinking and statistical analysis. Linking to random threads is like quoting from a Daily Mail article.

I hate the narrative on this thread that there are lots of stupid women waiting till 45 to procreate, who have not been ‘educated’ and are freezing their eggs willy nilly. Even the ones casually saying they will just freeze their eggs and have babies later, have probably done their research and know the chances are lower. They probably just say they will freeze their eggs to shut up their wide-eyed smug ‘concerned’ friends who have popped out a kid early.

I was lucky and got pregnant first time at 30 and 31. That didn’t then make me start preaching to friends about getting on with it. Not even the poor naive deluded ones who knew nothing apparently about fertility.

Well, anyone can see that leaving conception to the last minute at 39 is going to be more problematic than 31, for example. In the former case, you might get very lucky but there's a high chance you won't. Those are just the odds. To echo a PP, often getting pregnant over 40 isn't the problem, it's staying pregnant and having a live birth. One of my old colleagues just had a miscarriage at 21 weeks and this has been a common enough theme at this age, in my experience. No age guarantees you zero conception problems but it's just common sense that the earlier you start, the better your chance. It's everyone's own choice and that's it.

Presumably you know many trainee doctors then who waited till their thirties to have babies. Training in your twenties with young babies, whilst doing exams, needs intensive family support and money for childcare etc which most doctors in training posts don’t have. And that’s before factoring in the amount of moving around on rotation doctors have to do.

Your smug preaching (which you may not intend) comes from a point of privilege, doesn’t it.

I think nearly every woman knows this. It’s the patronising assertion by some on this thread that many women are ignorant and deluded and need ‘educating’ that’s so irritating.

If women go back to breeding in their twenties, it will reverse the meagre progress in the gender pay gap and equality that we have made. Does no one care about that?

Is it really a “very high chance” you won’t have a baby at 39? (I don’t know, would be great to read reports if anyone has links they can share).

Only because I thought it went more like this:

I know Dr's who had babies at every age and stage (including a couple who were pregnant at their finals). I am not sure there is ever a " perfect time" in terms of a medical career. Waiting until you are through training is perceived as risky and not the norm in my experience.

Hallelujah!

So true.

Not everyone knows what career they want.

Can find a guy at the drop of a hat who wants to settle down and have children.

Has a well paid career that enables them to afford childcare.

Is psychologically ready to have children at a young age because no childhood issues themselves.

As I said earlier, women are absolutely slammed for not being financially viable in their own right when they have children. Not everyone has the kind of career where you can go up the ranks while working full time.

As usual it's women being slammed whatever their choices (and some things aren't even choices - meeting the right guy, for instance).

And as usual it's other women that are doing it.

Part time not full time.

And you're lucky that medicine enabled you to work part time while still going up the ladder. That wouldn't be the same in many other careers. You'd not be able to go part time promoted or be sidelined in other ways.

As PP said you're blind to your own privilege.

I am familiar with this chart - 50% isn’t a very high stat imo. This means statistically at least one of my friends are likely to not conceive and carry to term naturally if they wait until very late 30s/early 40s as intended. Obviously it’s not black and white but people churn this data out as if it makes the case for waiting better but I didn’t like those odds myself!